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World Cup, Season 2, Match QF-D: Spain vs Taiwan; Voting deadline: Jan 18
Topic Started: Jan 4 2017, 04:41:33 PM (2,087 Views)
joachimt
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This is match QF-D of the second season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
SpainEl cochecitoThe Little Coach1960montylinklink
TaiwanGuang yin de gu shiIn Our Time1982Carmel98linklink


Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Jan 18th
Countdown till deadline

The winner of the match is the film with the most #1-votes. Of there's a tie at the deadline, there'll be a three day extension.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works


iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup
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Mario Gaborović
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Uneven anthology has its moments near the end... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

1. Guang yin de gu shi
2. El cochecito
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beavis
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El cochecito - 7
Guang yin de gu shi - 7
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XxXApathy420XxX
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1. El cochecito [The Little Coach] (1960)

2. 光陰的故事 [In Our Time] (1982)
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zuma
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01 - El cochecito

02 - Guang yin de gu shi

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monty
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Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
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Mario Gaborović
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monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
Apparently people love it, so don't despair.

I just realized I voted for Spanish films on only one occasion (Blancanieves), and even that was a Catalunyan film. :lol:
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joachimt
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Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 06:13:25 PM
monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
Apparently people love it, so don't despair.
Don't jump to conclusions after so few votes. Those three voters didn't even say they loved it.
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Mario Gaborović
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monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
I don't see any black humor there because he's old and he's expected to sit in a wheelchair for most of the time. To me, black humor is deriving from something much more gruesome, such as testicular cancer or gangrene (which would hypothetically replace wheelchair in this film). You may rather call this grey-ish humor. B)

But I suppose we all have our tolerance bars raised to different levels.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, Jan 4 2017, 06:59:16 PM.
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monty
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joachimt
Jan 4 2017, 06:45:00 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 06:13:25 PM
monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
Apparently people love it, so don't despair.
Don't jump to conclusions after so few votes. Those three voters didn't even say they loved it.
For the record, Art did say so.
Edited by monty, Jan 4 2017, 07:36:31 PM.
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joachimt
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monty
Jan 4 2017, 07:36:17 PM
joachimt
Jan 4 2017, 06:45:00 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 06:13:25 PM
monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
Apparently people love it, so don't despair.
Don't jump to conclusions after so few votes. Those three voters didn't even say they loved it.
For the record, Art did say so.
Not here. Are people discussing the WC-movies in a different topic? :shrug:
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joachimt
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Watching Taiwan now. That song starting at 23:30 seems to last forever. :yucky:
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Straka
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1. Guang yin de gu shi
2. El cochecito
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zhangalan
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Most likely Hungary is going to lose to Italy, so if Spain does not win over Taiwan, we'd have a completely new semi-final contenders.
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tarr
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1. El cochecito
2. Guang yin de gu shi
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joachimt
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I just watched the 2nd segment of Taiwan. It seems I have problems with audio in this movie. First the song in segment 1, now the voice of the little boy. Did they use a voice-over? The voice doesn't sound at all like a voice you would expect from such a little boy. Or maybe I'm just nit-picking.
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joachimt
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Not a very interesting round.

1. El cochecito
2. Guang...
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Mario Gaborović
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Posted ImageEl cochecito - Posted ImageGuang yin de gu shi: 5 - 2
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monty
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joachimt
Jan 5 2017, 04:10:01 PM
Not a very interesting round.
How come?
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joachimt
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monty
Jan 6 2017, 12:38:56 PM
joachimt
Jan 5 2017, 04:10:01 PM
Not a very interesting round.
How come?
Although I liked the general plot of El cochecito, I expected more of it. It's not funny enough to be a comedy, not even a dark one, although the idea sounded funny. For a drama there was not enough development to really get involved in the main character. It was a sad old man. If I want to watch a great movie about this, I'll rewatch Umberto D again.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't dislike the movie. I just don't see anything special in it.

Taiwan contained of a few forgettable shorts. I already forgot most of the 1st and 3rd one. The 4th was too unoriginal to be funny.
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monty
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joachimt
Jan 6 2017, 12:46:22 PM
It was a sad old man.
Too bad you didn't fall under the old guy's quirky spell. However, I'm positive that you'll be able to relate more to him as you approach old age yourself.
Edited by monty, Jan 6 2017, 01:26:47 PM.
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Perception de Ambiguity
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My review (or something) of 'In Our Time':

‘In Our Time’ is an omnibus film that started the Taiwanese New Wave, consisting of four segments by four different directors. I don't know if each director also wrote their own segment or if it was a more collaborative effort. There is a chronological progression from one segment to the next, going from the 50's to the 60's to the 70's and finally to the then-present, and each segment focuses on an older group of people than the segment before. Are the protagonist(s) actually the same character in all the segments? Maybe - maybe not - it doesn’t matter. But it might suggest that it was more of a collaborative effort.

First up is “Little Dragon Head” which to me is up there with the great childhood nostalgia films, and I was very surprised to learn afterwards that it wasn’t directed by Edward Yang because it had quite a few similarities to other Yang works, especially to 'A Brighter Summer Day', from its time period, to various motifs like the precious family radio, to the boy protagonist, to the film's brilliant evocation of childhood nostalgia, to most of all the self-assured and very sophisticated direction. Even more shocking to me was to see that Te-chen Tao, the actual director of this segment, not only hadn't made a film before, but that it also remains his only directing effort to date, with only a few acting credits in the 80's to his name. Not that in Edward Yang’s segment “Expectations”, which comes second, I didn’t also recognize some of his touches, and it isn’t a bad segment either, although nothing special, IMO.

Like the first segment “Expectations” also successfully evokes some nostalgia but feels comparatively try-hard with its consistently quite hazy visuals and more period-specific references (Vietnam war, The Beatles) to overall much lesser effect for me. It’s a decent coming-of-age tale about a girl’s sexual awakening filmed with enough spaces to not feel too much like the plot-driven affair with a clichéd character arc that it pretty much is. It doesn’t offer much in terms of characterizations either.
But I don’t want to make it sound bad, overall I quite enjoyed it and its director seemed to know well enough what he was doing, it, to me, just felt like it was a pale shadow of the first segment, not to mention Yang's own later 'A Brighter Summer Day' (I haven’t yet seen Yang’s other early films ‘That Day, on the Beach’ and ‘Taipei Story’, maybe there’s a progression from film to film that show the evolution of this filmmaker to eventually make something as mindblowing as ‘The Terrorizers’ and ‘A Brighter Summer Day’).

The other two segments I don't even care to write about. I’ll just say that they are more broad comedies.

So instead I want to concentrate on the great opening segment “Little Dragon Head”. Its male protagonist Hsiao-mao is around 11 or 12 years old. He always seems to get the short end of the stick, his classmates/”friends” constantly pick on him and in the eyes of his parents he can’t seem to do anything right even though from what we can see he is a perfectly nice boy. Not so his little brother who gets all the love and privileges from the parents although he is pretty misbehaved and seems to be so dim-witted as to come off as borderline retarded at times. Certainly the segment doesn't have balanced characterizations (not that any of the others do), but rather than making this a lesser film it instead seemed to be the film’s main way of signifying that it is told from the boy’s subjective point of view because the cinematic style itself is neutral and maybe even somewhat detached. What boy didn't feel unfairly treated by everybody, like everything is somebody elses fault? I know I did. This makes it easy to identify with him. And let’s not forget that it is after all a comedy (although not the “Ha! Ha!" kind) and it only has 30 minutes to tell its story. Though to call it a “story” is maybe an overstatement, certainly it isn't plot-driven, and while in the end one can make out a little tale, the film feels much more like a series of impressions and the kind of anecdotes that we are probably all familiar with from our childhood days.

And let me just give one example of the, to me, masterful filmmaking at display in ”Little Dragon Head”. It is a brief sequence very much at the beginning of the film, when Hsiao-mao comes home, as soon as he opens the front gate he is “greeted” by his mother (reproaching him for things he hasn’t even done yet) and some children wearing masks and a boy who identifies himself as his brother take notice of his arrival. This is all shot in close-ups and medium-shots, deriving the viewer of a full picture of the situation. When it cuts to the brother again along with three mask-wearing kids, who are now all playing with marbles, one could easily assume that our protagonist has joined the group and they are now all having fun together. But no, it now cuts to a wide overhead shot that finally reveals the whole scene and Hsiao-mao is still standing in the front gate and is now trudging into the house while the other children rejoice in a playful mood (along with the mother). This is achieved through smart editing, framing, scoring,…well, the whole package, and without being explicit the brief sequence immediately sets up the protagonist’s isolation which is at the center of this film.

That’s pretty much all I have to say about ‘In Our Time’, but I also feel the need to mention that the boy in "Expections" weirded me out. He very much sounded like he was dubbed by an adult man pretending to be 10. What adds to the weirdness is that he is introduced wearing (presumingly) a school uniform, but which looks a lot like a soldier’s uniform. Is that a child or a little person? Is it meant to be a little person portraying an adult or is the actor a little person who the film tries to pass off as a child, as has been done to hilarious effect in the Italian zombie schlockfest ‘Burial Ground: The Nights of Terror’, though in that case the film depicted an incestuous relationship between son and mother (with the boy literally eating one of his mother's tits...yes, you read that right), so the odd casting choice was justified in that respect. Anyway, it wasn't that big of a deal to me, I just found it weird and a bit off-putting.

My approximate would-be ratings for the individual segments:

Little Dragon Head: 9-
Expectations: 6+
Leap Frog: 5
Say Your Name: 4+

Overall: 6+/10


And the whole discussion between Carmel and myself from a few months back:
http://members.chello.at/my.webspace/In_Our_Time.htm
Edited by Perception de Ambiguity, Jan 6 2017, 09:17:05 PM.
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Smoover
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1. Guang yin de gu shi 7.0
2. El cochecito 5.0
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sortile9io
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Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 06:57:37 PM
monty
Jan 4 2017, 06:07:49 PM
Mario Gaborović
Jan 4 2017, 04:48:17 PM
... who told Ferreri he's funny? :(

it's not meant as an out-and-out comedy. Sure, there's black humour but in essence this is quirkily rueful look at the loneliness and longings of old age.
I don't see any black humor there because he's old and he's expected to sit in a wheelchair for most of the time. To me, black humor is deriving from something much more gruesome, such as testicular cancer or gangrene (which would hypothetically replace wheelchair in this film). You may rather call this grey-ish humor. B)

But I suppose we all have our tolerance bars raised to different levels.
One of the darkest moments, a short scene very near the end, was cut by the censorship of the time. I think most of us have watched the cut version but if anyone is interested, I think that single scene is available somewhere online as well as the script (I have read it). I don't think it was very a effective cut anyway since at the very end everybody will probably figure out why...

Major spoiler!
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Cocoa
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1. Guang yin de gu shi 7/10
2. El cochecito 5/10


*looks two posts above to see a post with a similar rating* lol
Edited by Cocoa, Jan 7 2017, 05:49:42 PM.
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sortile9io
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joachimt
Jan 4 2017, 08:40:42 PM
Watching Taiwan now. That song starting at 23:30 seems to last forever. :yucky:
You mean this one?



It also featured a few years before in one of my favourite Argentinian films: "Nazareno Cruz y el lobo". I'm very surprised to find it now on Taiwan. It must have been a hit in the 70s.
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Mario Gaborović
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That's nothing. I heard a traditional from far-south Serbia in a Singaporean musical directed by P. Ramlee. :D It apparently crossed ten thousands of miles via India, Arab world and Turkey over here.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, Jan 7 2017, 06:17:25 PM.
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Armoreska
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Is that a cameraman shadow at 1:15:50 of the Spanish DVD? Good job.
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toro913
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joachimt
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Posted ImageEl cochecito - Posted ImageGuang yin de gu shi: 6 - 4
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Armoreska
Jan 7 2017, 09:12:17 PM
Is that a cameraman shadow at 1:15:50 of the Spanish DVD? Good job.
I didn't notice that before. Reminds me of Voyna i mir. You can also spot Carlos Saura and writer Rafael Azcona during the first seconds of minute 27.
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sortile9io
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1. El cochecito — 7/10
2. Guang yin de gu shi — 6/10

The first two segments in the Taiwanese film alone could have won the match for me, but the last two were rather forgettable, pale in comparison to the sarcastic Spanish comedy.
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klaus78
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1. Guang yin de gu shi (Taiwan) 7/10
2. El cochecito (Spain) 7/10

The first episode giving Taiwan the edge.
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RBG
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1. el cochecito

2. guang yin de gu shi

i found el cochecito really touching. ferreri has a wry sense of humor but it works for me
Edited by RBG, Jan 9 2017, 08:38:41 PM.
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1. El cochecito [The Little Coach] (1960)
2. 光陰的故事 [In Our Time] (1982)
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1. El cochcito
2. In Our Time



Not even close for me. I enjoyed watching the Spain entry, whereas the Taiwan entry felt like a chore.
Edited by weirdboy, Jan 12 2017, 09:27:22 PM.
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brokenface
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1. El cochecito
2. In Our Time

I always like Jose Isbert though this one wasn't quite up with his Berlanga films for me. Still a good watch. Taiwan were a reasonable batch of short films, okay but nothing individually outstanding and didn't really add up to a greater whole by being joined together.
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Mario Gaborović
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Posted ImageEl cochecito - Posted ImageGuang yin de gu shi: 11 - 5
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I couldn't really feel the Spanish film. I got the old guys feeling of loneliness, but it just didn't come together for me. Taiwan's entry just did more for me. While all 4 segments weren't on the same level, there wasn't a weak one amongst them. I liked the segment I liked least still more than the Spanish film. And the first two were really, really good. I would say ratings wise 8/8/7/7.

So:
1. In Our Time 7.5/10
2. El cochecito 6.5/10
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Gershwin
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1. El cochecito (one of my favourite films)
2. In Our Time (only Yang's segment stood out)
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