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iCM Forum's Favourite Films on 0 Official Lists [2018 edition] - RESULTS!
Topic Started: Feb 11 2018, 05:56:08 PM (5,663 Views)
Fergenaprido
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iCM Forums' Favourite Films on Zero Official Lists

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To be consistent with the last poll, this will be a Top 250, using the same halflife and points.

Thanks to everyone who submitted a list; there are 7 more participants this time.

63 Participants
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 02:31:54 PM.
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Fergenaprido
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Reserved for the final lists.
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3eyes
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Whee! Here we go!
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Fergenaprido
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Here's the first batch of runners up.

You'll notice that most films will rise in place simply because many of the top films from the previous version are now official.

REDACTED until I figure out what's wrong and fix the error.


All is good. Results coming up in a new post.
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 02:32:30 PM.
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Fergenaprido
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Hold up. Just realized that my own list isn't showing up in the results. :facepalm:

Not sure what happened. I'll recalculate and doublecheck that everyone else's lists are there too. This is what I get for doing this when I'm tired. For now, though, I'm off to bed. :pinch:

Edit: Okay, the filmcounter script is missing a lot of lists. Not sure what's going wrong. Am I using the wrong file (attached)?

Edit 2: Okay, yes, it's the wrong file. Found the new one from mjf in the scripts thread.


All is good. Results coming up in a new post.
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 02:32:52 PM.
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Carmel1379
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When I ran the comedy poll (and also did most things manually), and deleted things within someone's list in excel, those 'perturbed' lists wouldn't show up in the final results. I'm just mentioning, since you did concern yourself with TV series at one point and maybe decided to delete stuff. My list isn't showing up in the results either.

3395 fewer films is really dodgy, especially since PdA voted for about 3380.
Edited by Carmel1379, Feb 11 2018, 06:21:32 PM.
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beavis
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I also voted for l'eau froide!
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Fergenaprido
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Carmel1379
Feb 11 2018, 06:20:53 PM
When I ran the comedy poll (and also did most things manually), and deleted things within someone's list in excel, those 'perturbed' lists wouldn't show up in the final results. I'm just mentioning, since you did concern yourself with TV series at one point and maybe decided to delete stuff. My list isn't showing up in the results either.

3395 fewer films is really dodgy, especially since PdA voted for about 3380.
Yeah, figured it out. Using the wrong java file.

I only edited one person's list, but I did that in text edit, which keeps the csv file's integrity and doesn't affect the scripts.

As for the TV series, I realized most of them are mini-series and just improperly labelled, so I left them all in. Anyone who removed them from their list after, I just used the original list that I had already downloaded.
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flaiky
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I'm so intrigued to watch these results unfold. Definitely the least predictable poll I've been a part of.
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GruesomeTwosome
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I don't see "unranked" next to my name in the participants list, and I did clearly say "Unranked" when I posted my list in the nominations thread (here: http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10127812&t=10394755). Hopefully you included my list as being unranked and just forgot to put that next to my name.
Edited by GruesomeTwosome, Feb 11 2018, 07:53:29 PM.
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sol
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Fergenaprido
Feb 11 2018, 05:56:08 PM
63 Participants
 
sol (ranked 100)
http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10122981&t=10394755

:satstunned:

Actually, my whole list is ranked. All I said was that I wasn't going to fine-tune the ranking of my films beyond the 100 point due to the uncannily low half-life that you were considering using.

Speaking of which, I don't suppose it makes that much difference if my 101-250 is ranked or unranked, does it? With such a low half-life, that is. I mean, it would seem a shame for you to have to start again, but then again, you still haven't really gotten started...
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Fergenaprido
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GruesomeTwosome
Feb 11 2018, 07:39:57 PM
I don't see "unranked" next to my name in the participants list, and I did clearly say "Unranked" when I posted my list in the nominations thread (here: http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10127812&t=10394755). Hopefully you included my list as being unranked and just forgot to put that next to my name.
You're right. Not sure how I missed that. Easily rectified, though; your list is now unranked in the files.

sol
Feb 11 2018, 10:35:31 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 11 2018, 05:56:08 PM
63 Participants
 
sol (ranked 100)
http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10122981&t=10394755

:satstunned:

Actually, my whole list is ranked. All I said was that I wasn't going to fine-tune the ranking of my films beyond the 100 point due to the uncannily low half-life that you were considering using.

Speaking of which, I don't suppose it makes that much difference if my 101-250 is ranked or unranked, does it? With such a low half-life, that is. I mean, it would seem a shame for you to have to start again, but then again, you still haven't really gotten started...
Sorry, it wasn't clear from your post. I'll change your list to fully ranked.

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GruesomeTwosome
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Great, thanks Ferg!
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Fergenaprido
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Okay, here it goes again. Testing the results out on some runners up, to make sure that I didn't mess up anything since the filmcounter is being thrown out of whack due to the latest round of imdb changes, thus I had to do more manual adjustments than normal, which always leaves more room for error.

This list will be a Top 250, just like last time. I'll start posting the runners up from 300-251 (without screenshots) just to make sure that everything is smooth. That way, if I messed up someone's list, or something went wrong, I'll have time to fix it before the real results begin. Plus, I really like some of the films that just missed the cut :D

Changes are from the last time the list was run in July 2015 (from the entire results, not just the Top 250). If you notice anything incorrect or inconsistent, please let me know. Thanks everyone for your contributions and patience!
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 04:53:59 PM.
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Fergenaprido
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Not sure how it decides which name to list first; it's neither alphabetical or descending order :shrug:

Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 04:54:42 PM.
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sol
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Not sure how it decides which name to list first; it's neither alphabetical or descending order :shrug:
I think it's based on the order the lists are uploaded, i.e. whoever submitted their ballot first.

If you're able to change it, I would prefer to have names listed in order of whoever gave the film the most points. Anarchy always does this when he posts results (not sure how).
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sol
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
As far as I understand it (which might be wrong), higher half-lives provide more points to films further down the list. Which would seem to make sense if most folks' lists are as large as mine. Then again, I suppose it evens out since all lists are weighted in the same manner, no matter which half-life is used.

Actually, if anybody cares to provide one, I would be curious to see a breakdown of points awarded to #1, #2, #5, #10, #20, #50 and #100 listed films for various sample half-lives.
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Fergenaprido
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sol
Feb 12 2018, 03:28:09 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Not sure how it decides which name to list first; it's neither alphabetical or descending order :shrug:
I think it's based on the order the lists are uploaded, i.e. whoever submitted their ballot first.

If you're able to change it, I would prefer to have names listed in order of whoever gave the film the most points. Anarchy always does this when he posts results (not sure how).
Good guess. I just checked, and the order doesn't seem to be based on either when the lists were downloaded, nor when they were last modified. No idea how to change it, though.

sol
Feb 12 2018, 03:32:22 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
As far as I understand it (which might be wrong), higher half-lives provide more points to films further down the list. Which would seem to make sense if most folks' lists are as large as mine. Then again, I suppose it evens out since all lists are weighted in the same manner, no matter which half-life is used.

Actually, if anybody cares to provide one, I would be curious to see a breakdown of points awarded to #1, #2, #5, #10, #20, #50 and #100 listed films for various sample half-lives.
I think I can pull this together. I remember doing it for another poll. Gimme 30 minutes or so. :D

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joachimt
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What's the average list length?
You can get that fastest with the sum of the column "votes" divided by number of participants.
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joachimt
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:37:25 PM
sol
Feb 12 2018, 03:32:22 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
As far as I understand it (which might be wrong), higher half-lives provide more points to films further down the list. Which would seem to make sense if most folks' lists are as large as mine. Then again, I suppose it evens out since all lists are weighted in the same manner, no matter which half-life is used.

Actually, if anybody cares to provide one, I would be curious to see a breakdown of points awarded to #1, #2, #5, #10, #20, #50 and #100 listed films for various sample half-lives.
I think I can pull this together. I remember doing it for another poll. Gimme 30 minutes or so. :D

Here you go:

Posted Image

x-axis = rank
y-axis = points received

Done for halflifes 10, 20, 30, 40, 50. The one with 10 is the one declining the fastest.

You want to see other halflifes?
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Fergenaprido
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How did you do that? :wub:

I just did it all manually lol.

Attached is an image of list lengths, including mean, median, and mode (excluding PdA's list, since it's 3380 entries and would skew the data)
mean 142.8225806
median 100
mode 100

As for half-lives, I just did a comparison of 25, 50, 75, and 100. Given the lists are on average quite long compared to other polls I've run, I don't think a half-life less than 25 makes sense.

Half-life Comparison (Points)
RankHL 100HL 75HL 50HL 25
1100100100100
1093.95292.01988.27077.916
2684.09079.37070.71150.000
5170.71162.99650.00025.000
7659.46050.00035.35512.500
10150.00039.68525.0006.250
15035.60125.23212.6741.606


Based on this, I would actually lean toward a half-life of 50 or 75.
Attached to this post:
Attachments: List_Length.png (130.06 KB)
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sol
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 04:05:58 PM
Attached is an image of list lengths, including mean, median, and mode (excluding PdA's list, since it's 3380 entries and would skew the data)
Interesting image, though of course my list contains 250 films - not 50 films. :ermm:

Really interesting data, guys. Sorry, I'd chat more but it's late and I need to get up in 6 hours or something crazy like that. :wacko:

P.S.: Yes on 75 HL.
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joachimt
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50 makes sense. 75 is too high.
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Fergenaprido
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sol
Feb 12 2018, 04:10:44 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 04:05:58 PM
Attached is an image of list lengths, including mean, median, and mode (excluding PdA's list, since it's 3380 entries and would skew the data)
Interesting image, though of course my list contains 250 films - not 50 films. :ermm:

Really interesting data, guys. Sorry, I'd chat more but it's late and I need to get up in 6 hours or something crazy like that. :wacko:

P.S.: Yes on 75 HL.
Typo in my spreadsheet :D

mean 146.0483871
median 103
mode 100
Edited by Fergenaprido, Feb 12 2018, 04:14:24 PM.
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joachimt
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HL's 25, 50, 75, 100

Posted Image
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Fergenaprido
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joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 04:13:33 PM
50 makes sense. 75 is too high.
How do you determine this? Just gut feeling?
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joachimt
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 04:22:41 PM
joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 04:13:33 PM
50 makes sense. 75 is too high.
How do you determine this? Just gut feeling?
Roughly one third of the average list length is what we mostly use.
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PeacefulAnarchy
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I'd go lower than 50 on the halflife given what you've posted.

Looked at the distribution, I'd go with 40, but 50 would be ok too, bit on the high end. That distribution is more skewed than usual which makes it harder to find a fair value. Normally the outliers on the end aren't so far away from the average and even the 3rd quartile
Edited by PeacefulAnarchy, Feb 12 2018, 05:22:44 PM.
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Fergenaprido
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Okay. Third time's a charm.

Going with a half-life of 50.

Apologies for all of the stops and starts, folks. :ermm: :blush:

Here are the runners up

#261 (#new) Nocturama (2016, Bertrand Bonello), 182.22 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


#260 (#new) Waste Land (2010, Lucy Walker & Karen Harley), 182.26 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


#259 (+1038, #1297) Dear Frankie (2004, Shona Auerbach), 182.63 points, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 voters


#258 (+553, #811) American Dream (1990, Barbara Kopple & others), 182.81 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters


#257 (+231, #488) Shall We Dance (1937, Mark Sandrich), 182.9 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


#256 (+178, #434) Crazy, Stupid, Love. (2011, Ficarra & Requa), 183.32 points, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 voters


#255 (+210, #465) Lily and Jim (1997, Don Hertzfeldt), 183.51 points, 5 votes (IMDb)
5 voters


#254 (+91, #345) The Mad Doctor (1933, David Hand), 183.52 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


#253 (-37, #216) Help! (1965, Richard Lester), 183.8 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


#252 (+1410, #1662) Sakura no mori no mankai no shita [Under the Cherry Blossoms] (1975, Masahiro Shinoda), 183.94 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


#251 (+1999, #2250) The Wrong Box (1966, Bryan Forbes), 184.06 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters
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Fergenaprido
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joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 05:03:14 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 04:22:41 PM
joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 04:13:33 PM
50 makes sense. 75 is too high.
How do you determine this? Just gut feeling?
Roughly one third of the average list length is what we mostly use.

PeacefulAnarchy
Feb 12 2018, 05:14:12 PM
I'd go lower than 50 on the halflife given what you've posted.

Looked at the distribution, I'd go with 40, but 50 would be ok too, bit on the high end. That distribution is more skewed than usual which makes it harder to find a fair value. Normally the outliers on the end aren't so far away from the average and even the 3rd quartile

Okay, thanks. I'll keep these points in mind for next time. And I guess I should start with that analysis first to avoid doing unnecessary/repetitive work, lol.
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Fergenaprido
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Now, to finally start the top 250.

Posted Image
#250 (#new) The Other Side of the Underneath (1972, Jane Arden), 184.32 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters


Posted Image
#249 (#new) The Agony and the Ecstasy (1965, Carold Reed), 185.36 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters


Posted Image
#248 (#new) Torneranno i prati [Greenery Will Bloom Again] (2014, Ermanno Olmi), 185.6 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


Posted Image
#247 (-33, #214) Les anges du péché [Angels of Sin] (1943, Robert Bresson), 185.92 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


Posted Image
#246 (#new) State of Play (2003, David Yates), 186.02 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


Only 5 films with 2 votes made the top 250, and two of them feature here.
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cinephage
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The Bold Carold made films of Gold... tehe
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rnilsson19
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 06:24:25 PM
Posted Image
#250 (#new) The Other Side of the Underneath (1972, Jane Arden), 184.32 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters

Yay! I'm glad that I went back and pushed it a few places higher up on my list.
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brokenface
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Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 05:37:59 PM
Apologies for all of the stops and starts, folks. :ermm: :blush:

Here are the runners up

#261 (#new) Nocturama (2016, Bertrand Bonello), 182.22 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters

Ah I think I thought 2015 was the newest we could go or this one would've been on mine.

although actually I now see it's on the TSPDT 21st century update..
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Fergenaprido
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Posted Image

#245 (#new) A Quiet Passion (2016, Terence Davies), 186.43 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


Posted Image

#244 (+1010, #1254) Cecil B. DeMented (2000, John Waters), 186.9 points, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 voters


Posted Image

#243 (+6, #249) Prix de beauté (Miss Europe) [Beauty Prize] (1930, Augusto Genina), 187.83 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters


Posted Image

#242 (+2228, #2470) On Your Mark (1995, Hayao Miyazaki), 187.84 points, 3 votes (IMDb)
3 voters


Posted Image

#241 (#new) The Devil and Miss Jones (1941, Sam Wood), 187.96 points, 4 votes (IMDb)
4 voters
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Cocoa
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Oh, I wasn't expecting The Devil and Miss Jones to show up. Pleasantly surprised ^_^ Also wasn't expecting Under the Cherry Blossoms to be less than a point away from making the list. Beautiful cinematography in that film.

Cecil B. DeMented :wub:
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sol
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Fergenaprido
Feb 13 2018, 01:46:30 AM
#244 (+1010, #1254) Cecil B. DeMented (2000, John Waters), 186.9 points, 6 votes (IMDb)
6 voters
 
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>37)
paul281f (unranked>12)
cinephage (#500)
Cocoa (#145)
sol (#125)
mathiasa (#25)
Up by over 1000 spots. Hell yeah! :banana:
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St. Gloede
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rnilsson19
Feb 12 2018, 07:03:30 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 06:24:25 PM
Posted Image
#250 (#new) The Other Side of the Underneath (1972, Jane Arden), 184.32 points, 2 votes (IMDb)
2 voters

Yay! I'm glad that I went back and pushed it a few places higher up on my list.
I'm surprised we are the only two. Hopefully a few people will spot our high rankings and look up the film - an incredible experience.
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Lonewolf2003
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joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 03:58:10 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:37:25 PM
sol
Feb 12 2018, 03:32:22 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
As far as I understand it (which might be wrong), higher half-lives provide more points to films further down the list. Which would seem to make sense if most folks' lists are as large as mine. Then again, I suppose it evens out since all lists are weighted in the same manner, no matter which half-life is used.

Actually, if anybody cares to provide one, I would be curious to see a breakdown of points awarded to #1, #2, #5, #10, #20, #50 and #100 listed films for various sample half-lives.
I think I can pull this together. I remember doing it for another poll. Gimme 30 minutes or so. :D

Here you go:

Posted Image

x-axis = rank
y-axis = points received

Done for halflifes 10, 20, 30, 40, 50. The one with 10 is the one declining the fastest.

You want to see other halflifes?
Thanks for the graph. Makes it more comprehensible.

Btw, I think it’s best for consistency to use the same half-life in repeated polls. A movie in an unchanged user list should receive the same points every time.
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Feb 13 2018, 12:40:48 PM.
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Fergenaprido
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Lonewolf2003
Feb 13 2018, 11:43:30 AM
joachimt
Feb 12 2018, 03:58:10 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:37:25 PM
sol
Feb 12 2018, 03:32:22 PM
Fergenaprido
Feb 12 2018, 03:22:47 PM
Also, based on the results thus far, how are people with the halflife? This is something I never seem to grasp: which halflife to use.
As far as I understand it (which might be wrong), higher half-lives provide more points to films further down the list. Which would seem to make sense if most folks' lists are as large as mine. Then again, I suppose it evens out since all lists are weighted in the same manner, no matter which half-life is used.

Actually, if anybody cares to provide one, I would be curious to see a breakdown of points awarded to #1, #2, #5, #10, #20, #50 and #100 listed films for various sample half-lives.
I think I can pull this together. I remember doing it for another poll. Gimme 30 minutes or so. :D

Here you go:

x-axis = rank
y-axis = points received

Done for halflifes 10, 20, 30, 40, 50. The one with 10 is the one declining the fastest.

You want to see other halflifes?
Thanks for the graph. Makes it more comprehensible.

Btw, I think it’s best for consistency to use the same half-life in repeated polls. A movie in an unchanged user list should receive the same points every time.
In general I would agree, which is why I started with a 25 half-life this time. But, as polls grow ever larger with more participants creating longer lists, the half-life should grow with it. It's like raising the benchmark each year; we don't expect our lists to be static and never improve, so we shouldn't expect that of our results either, otherwise there is no incentive, imo. I think strict consistency only makes sense when you have the same people submitting slightly updated versions of the same list on a regular basis (like the annual favourites poll), but for less regular lists it's better to adjust to the needs of each round.
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