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New Official List Discussion
Topic Started: Aug 16 2012, 11:05:12 AM (82,999 Views)
Onderhond
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monk-time
Jan 15 2018, 07:22:55 PM
If our goal is to get more people to watch men in classy suits slapping each other noirs
Don't think that can really be a "goal" for ICM, you can start to tinker with all lists in all kinds of way just to achieve that goal.
A list is a list, either include it as a whole or don't include it at all.
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dirty_score
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I think the noirs lists shouldn't be separated. If one wants an introduction in the noir genre they go for the Imdb one, that's the purpose of those lists, to serve as introduction in various genres to the average icm user. I saw at least 25, I got the bronze and trust me, I'm fine with it!

I'm pretty sure the average ICM user won't waste their time with the noir genre, much less watching black and white movies! Sad to say, but that's the truth.


Not being a fan of noir myself, this update was kind to me. :thumbsup:
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Cippenham
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Ebbywebby
Jan 15 2018, 08:10:23 PM
The new lists don't suit my tastes at all, beyond the (sadly temporary) reduction of official noir films...I think I had a net loss of five checks with the switch.

Working on my "favorite unofficial checks" ballot for the upcoming poll...kinda bewildered at how many of the candidates are British. If a "warped/counterculture British films" list ever gets added, I'll get a big boost. All unofficial: The Mouse That Roared, The Wrong Box, Help!, The Magic Christian, Bedazzled, The Boy Friend, The Music Lovers, Isadora, Mahler, And Now for Something Completely Different, Nightwatching, Ned Kelly, How I Won the War, Savage Messiah, Gumshoe, One Way Pendulum, Rotten to the Core, Scott Walker: 30 Century Men, Dance of the Seven Veils, The Filth & the Fury, A Matter of Loaf and Death, Two Way Stretch, Figures in a Landscape, Modesty Blaise, That'll Be the Day, The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash, The Kids Are Alright, The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer, Filth, Your Past Is Showing, Nasty Habits, Having a Wild Weekend, Vacuuming Completely Nude in Paradise, Negatives, Twisted Nerve, Heavens Above, Charlie Is My Darling, The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, Momma Don't Allow, Savages....
I was saying for ages many good British films are not on any lists but much better than many that are and this is just a small sample
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sebby
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Essential Noir: 56/100 #623
Comedy: 79/101 #752
Romance: 78/100 #634
Golden Lotus: 4/64 #175
Lola: 8/70 #978
Westerns: 32/100 #1319

Not too excited about this current batch of lists. But then again I'm not a list completionist so it doesn't really matter much.
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bal3x
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monk-time
Jan 15 2018, 07:22:55 PM
bal3x
Jan 15 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Yeah, this is weird... so why not get rid of the small one altogether?
If our goal is to get more people to watch men in classy suits slapping each other noirs, a separate 100-long list is much better at that than a 1000. It gives one an actually feasible way of tracking progress, gaining awards and aiming at list completion. I'd even say that a 1000-long list does the opposite.
My problem is not with this notion of having a more accessible list, but rather the one of having 900 films on the big list instead of 1000 in the source.
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Ebbywebby
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Cippenham
Jan 15 2018, 10:50:05 PM
Ebbywebby
Jan 15 2018, 08:10:23 PM
The new lists don't suit my tastes at all, beyond the (sadly temporary) reduction of official noir films...I think I had a net loss of five checks with the switch.

Working on my "favorite unofficial checks" ballot for the upcoming poll...kinda bewildered at how many of the candidates are British. If a "warped/counterculture British films" list ever gets added, I'll get a big boost. All unofficial: The Mouse That Roared, The Wrong Box, Help!, The Magic Christian, Bedazzled, The Boy Friend, The Music Lovers, Isadora, Mahler, And Now for Something Completely Different, Nightwatching, Ned Kelly, How I Won the War, Savage Messiah, Gumshoe, One Way Pendulum, Rotten to the Core, Scott Walker: 30 Century Men, Dance of the Seven Veils, The Filth & the Fury, A Matter of Loaf and Death, Two Way Stretch, Figures in a Landscape, Modesty Blaise, That'll Be the Day, The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash, The Kids Are Alright, The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer, Filth, Your Past Is Showing, Nasty Habits, Having a Wild Weekend, Vacuuming Completely Nude in Paradise, Negatives, Twisted Nerve, Heavens Above, Charlie Is My Darling, The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, Momma Don't Allow, Savages....
I was saying for ages many good British films are not on any lists but much better than many that are and this is just a small sample
Which good examples did I leave out?

I forgot to include "Let It Be"....
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rnilsson19
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Ken Russell's filmography needs to be made official tbh. So many neglected films.
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fori
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Ebbywebby
Jan 16 2018, 12:36:50 AM
I forgot to include "Let It Be"....
Key omission!
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allisoncm
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100 Comedies - 100/101 Rank #7
100 Romantic - 100/100 Rank #1
100 Westerns (BFI Screen Guide) 83/100 Rank #29
Golden Lotus Award 6/64 Rank #64
Lola Award 22/70 Rank #26
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 512/605 Rank #12

When I get time, I'll watch the final comedy. I'm also interested in some of the noir and a few of the westerns.
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WalterNeff
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100 Comedies - 93/101 Rank #151
100 Romantic - 96/100 Rank #46
100 Westerns (BFI Screen Guide) 81/100 Rank #41
Golden Lotus Award 2/64 Rank #826
Lola Award 12/70 Rank #289
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 599/605 Rank #2, but that will change shortly
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Gershwin
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Lilarcor
Jan 15 2018, 07:36:06 PM
monk-time
Jan 15 2018, 07:22:55 PM
bal3x
Jan 15 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Yeah, this is weird... so why not get rid of the small one altogether?
If our goal is to get more people to watch men in classy suits slapping each other noirs, a separate 100-long list is much better at that than a 1000. It gives one an actually feasible way of tracking progress, gaining awards and aiming at list completion. I'd even say that a 1000-long list does the opposite.
Agreed. A 1000-list of noir films in particular is hard to get a grasp of. I struggle really hard telling many noirs apart from the title alone, they're so similar somehow. Heck, even a top 100 is confusing for me.
So actually there's only one solution: ditch the huge list altogether. Right? -_-
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xianjiro
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Not sure I can tell which was more popular - replacing the old horror list or replacing the old noir lists - I'll admit to being a bit surprised with how much displeasure & confusion this generated

Still waiting for people to respond to the new rankings - maybe that will finishing calculating in a few hours. Some folks will be really unhappy.
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OldAle1
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xianjiro
Jan 16 2018, 09:40:06 PM
Not sure I can tell which was more popular - replacing the old horror list or replacing the old noir lists - I'll admit to being a bit surprised with how much displeasure & confusion this generated

Still waiting for people to respond to the new rankings - maybe that will finishing calculating in a few hours. Some folks will be really unhappy.
If the numbers are correct I'll actually be going up a couple of spots (93 to 91) despite losing 150+ checks. Guess the others right next to me lost more, or gained fewer.
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WalterNeff
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It looks like I will drop from 27 to 30.

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Nathan Treadway
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WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 06:32:44 PM
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 599/605 Rank #2, but that will change shortly
GASP! Quick, go in and change it back to the way it was. Nobody will notice. YOU HAVE THE POWER! tehe
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Lost a few checks but jumped from 86th to 83rd yay
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WalterNeff
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Nathan Treadway
Jan 17 2018, 01:17:19 AM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 06:32:44 PM
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 599/605 Rank #2, but that will change shortly
GASP! Quick, go in and change it back to the way it was. Nobody will notice. YOU HAVE THE POWER! tehe
Actually they will. I deleted the only film from the last big noir list that is unavailable, but my fellow mods beat me up over that and made me put it back.
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xianjiro
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WalterNeff
Jan 17 2018, 03:25:38 AM
Nathan Treadway
Jan 17 2018, 01:17:19 AM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 06:32:44 PM
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 599/605 Rank #2, but that will change shortly
GASP! Quick, go in and change it back to the way it was. Nobody will notice. YOU HAVE THE POWER! tehe
Actually they will. I deleted the only film from the last big noir list that is unavailable, but my fellow mods beat me up over that and made me put it back.
Well then, maybe you need to go to TSPDT and 'make them an offer they can't refuse', just don't forget to take along a very attractive blonde who smokes and leans against a shadowy wall.
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Harco
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TSPDT Noir should be one list.

Just sayin'.
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monk-time
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Harco
Jan 17 2018, 08:43:09 AM
TSPDT Noir should be one list.

Just sayin'.
One Site, One Genre, One List? ˇNo pasarán!
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Onderhond
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Coming back to the BFI Screen Guide discussion, the BFI itself replied this (on Facebook):
Quote:
 
Hi Niels, thanks for the question and apologies for the delay. BFI Publishing doesn't place any restrictions on the author’s selection of titles when they propose or produce their Screen Guide manuscript. However, it is expected – depending on the subject – that the book will cover a wide variety of films from across the globe. Hope that helps, thanks!

So yeah, Screen Guides seem to be fine :)
Edited by Onderhond, Jan 17 2018, 12:01:56 PM.
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WalterNeff
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xianjiro
Jan 17 2018, 04:54:58 AM
WalterNeff
Jan 17 2018, 03:25:38 AM
Nathan Treadway
Jan 17 2018, 01:17:19 AM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 06:32:44 PM
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films: 599/605 Rank #2, but that will change shortly
GASP! Quick, go in and change it back to the way it was. Nobody will notice. YOU HAVE THE POWER! tehe
Actually they will. I deleted the only film from the last big noir list that is unavailable, but my fellow mods beat me up over that and made me put it back.
Well then, maybe you need to go to TSPDT and 'make them an offer they can't refuse', just don't forget to take along a very attractive blonde who smokes and leans against a shadowy wall.
I checked with TSPDT, and the unavailable noir will not be on the new list, so there's that.
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bal3x
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WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 11:22:08 PM
It looks like I will drop from 27 to 30.

Posted Image

:whistling:
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WalterNeff
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bal3x
Jan 17 2018, 11:53:25 PM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 11:22:08 PM
It looks like I will drop from 27 to 30.

Posted Image

:whistling:
even when I hit Platinum you will still be on top, because alphabetical
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bal3x
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WalterNeff
Jan 18 2018, 03:10:50 AM
bal3x
Jan 17 2018, 11:53:25 PM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 11:22:08 PM
It looks like I will drop from 27 to 30.

Posted Image

:whistling:
even when I hit Platinum you will still be on top, because alphabetical
Should always select nicks starting with A :lol:
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albajos
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nah, overrated

Wonder why there are so many Video Game companies from the 80s that start with an A? Well, that's why.
Thankfully we didn't get ABBA games.
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St. Gloede
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Ebbywebby
Jan 15 2018, 08:10:23 PM
The new lists don't suit my tastes at all, beyond the (sadly temporary) reduction of official noir films...I think I had a net loss of five checks with the switch.

Working on my "favorite unofficial checks" ballot for the upcoming poll...kinda bewildered at how many of the candidates are British. If a "warped/counterculture British films" list ever gets added, I'll get a big boost. All unofficial: The Mouse That Roared, The Wrong Box, Help!, The Magic Christian, Bedazzled, The Boy Friend, The Music Lovers, Isadora, Mahler, And Now for Something Completely Different, Nightwatching, Ned Kelly, How I Won the War, Savage Messiah, Gumshoe, One Way Pendulum, Rotten to the Core, Scott Walker: 30 Century Man, Dance of the Seven Veils, The Filth & the Fury, A Matter of Loaf and Death, Two Way Stretch, Figures in a Landscape, Modesty Blaise, That'll Be the Day, The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash, The Kids Are Alright, The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer, Filth, Your Past Is Showing, Nasty Habits, Having a Wild Weekend, Vacuuming Completely Nude in Paradise, Negatives, Twisted Nerve, Heavens Above, Charlie Is My Darling, The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, Momma Don't Allow, Savages....
I love several films on this list, will give the others a look. Thanks!
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OldAle1
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Ebbywebby
Jan 16 2018, 12:36:50 AM
Cippenham
Jan 15 2018, 10:50:05 PM
Ebbywebby
Jan 15 2018, 08:10:23 PM
The new lists don't suit my tastes at all, beyond the (sadly temporary) reduction of official noir films...I think I had a net loss of five checks with the switch.

Working on my "favorite unofficial checks" ballot for the upcoming poll...kinda bewildered at how many of the candidates are British. If a "warped/counterculture British films" list ever gets added, I'll get a big boost. All unofficial: The Mouse That Roared, The Wrong Box, Help!, The Magic Christian, Bedazzled, The Boy Friend, The Music Lovers, Isadora, Mahler, And Now for Something Completely Different, Nightwatching, Ned Kelly, How I Won the War, Savage Messiah, Gumshoe, One Way Pendulum, Rotten to the Core, Scott Walker: 30 Century Men, Dance of the Seven Veils, The Filth & the Fury, A Matter of Loaf and Death, Two Way Stretch, Figures in a Landscape, Modesty Blaise, That'll Be the Day, The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash, The Kids Are Alright, The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer, Filth, Your Past Is Showing, Nasty Habits, Having a Wild Weekend, Vacuuming Completely Nude in Paradise, Negatives, Twisted Nerve, Heavens Above, Charlie Is My Darling, The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, Momma Don't Allow, Savages....
I was saying for ages many good British films are not on any lists but much better than many that are and this is just a small sample
Which good examples did I leave out?

I forgot to include "Let It Be"....
I would add The Final Programme, which I didn't love unfortunately but really wanted to, and have an interest in seeing again.

I like the *idea* of this list, and of weird British films from, say, *1966-78 or so more than I actually like the films in reality, often. I think it's because a couple of my earliest "wow" moments when I was getting into film were A Clockwork Orange and O Lucky Man, and how many films are going to measure up to those? Zardoz, obviously (and EVERYBODY here loves Zardoz, right? right?) but a lot of the rest that I've seen from this period just haven't measured up. But I think it's time for me to come up with a list for myself to go through because even when I don't love them there is something about the British approach to "warped/counterculture" filmmaking that is always attractive to me.

*If this was a movement, and if it had a beginning, I'd call Blowup the key early film in it.
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St. Gloede
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I am surprised this period has not really been categorized as a movement, or was seen as a continuation of the British New Wave (which granted was more realist). Perhaps this is our opportunity to coin a movement?
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albajos
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labels is usually a misrepresentation of art anyway
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xianjiro
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WalterNeff
Jan 18 2018, 03:10:50 AM
bal3x
Jan 17 2018, 11:53:25 PM
WalterNeff
Jan 16 2018, 11:22:08 PM
It looks like I will drop from 27 to 30.

Posted Image

:whistling:
even when I hit Platinum you will still be on top, because alphabetical
will the horrors never end!?! :circle:
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Ebbywebby
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OldAle1
Jan 18 2018, 02:48:28 PM
Ebbywebby
Jan 16 2018, 12:36:50 AM
Cippenham
Jan 15 2018, 10:50:05 PM
Ebbywebby
Jan 15 2018, 08:10:23 PM
The new lists don't suit my tastes at all, beyond the (sadly temporary) reduction of official noir films...I think I had a net loss of five checks with the switch.

Working on my "favorite unofficial checks" ballot for the upcoming poll...kinda bewildered at how many of the candidates are British. If a "warped/counterculture British films" list ever gets added, I'll get a big boost. All unofficial: The Mouse That Roared, The Wrong Box, Help!, The Magic Christian, Bedazzled, The Boy Friend, The Music Lovers, Isadora, Mahler, And Now for Something Completely Different, Nightwatching, Ned Kelly, How I Won the War, Savage Messiah, Gumshoe, One Way Pendulum, Rotten to the Core, Scott Walker: 30 Century Men, Dance of the Seven Veils, The Filth & the Fury, A Matter of Loaf and Death, Two Way Stretch, Figures in a Landscape, Modesty Blaise, That'll Be the Day, The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash, The Kids Are Alright, The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer, Filth, Your Past Is Showing, Nasty Habits, Having a Wild Weekend, Vacuuming Completely Nude in Paradise, Negatives, Twisted Nerve, Heavens Above, Charlie Is My Darling, The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, Momma Don't Allow, Savages....
I was saying for ages many good British films are not on any lists but much better than many that are and this is just a small sample
Which good examples did I leave out?

I forgot to include "Let It Be"....
I would add The Final Programme, which I didn't love unfortunately but really wanted to, and have an interest in seeing again.

I like the *idea* of this list, and of weird British films from, say, *1966-78 or so more than I actually like the films in reality, often. I think it's because a couple of my earliest "wow" moments when I was getting into film were A Clockwork Orange and O Lucky Man, and how many films are going to measure up to those? Zardoz, obviously (and EVERYBODY here loves Zardoz, right? right?) but a lot of the rest that I've seen from this period just haven't measured up. But I think it's time for me to come up with a list for myself to go through because even when I don't love them there is something about the British approach to "warped/counterculture" filmmaking that is always attractive to me.

*If this was a movement, and if it had a beginning, I'd call Blowup the key early film in it.
"The Final Programme" (or "The Last Days of Man on Earth"?) sounds fun...hadn't heard of that before!

"Blow-Up"? I'd estimate this fuzzy "movement" (at least, my conception of it) began earlier with the impact of "The Goon Show," Peter Sellers and that style of humor. And then there was "A Hard Day's Night," of course. Scanning my early-60s checks, I also note "Culloden," "Billy Liar" and "Tom Jones."

More people need to see "One Way Pendulum," damn it! Just five checks? That's one of the most matter-of-factly strange movies I've ever seen...great! TCM shows it every blue moon, when they decide to program a block of Peter Yates films.
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Minkin
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St. Gloede
Jan 18 2018, 03:02:31 PM
I am surprised this period has not really been categorized as a movement, or was seen as a continuation of the British New Wave (which granted was more realist). Perhaps this is our opportunity to coin a movement?
I suppose its focused on the sexploitation end of things, but the "Keeping the British End Up" book + list can fill in many of the gaps (plus if it were made official, it would be 98% new official checks). Or - I know we don't want another film distributor list (there's already enough problems with Criterion + MoC), but a BFI Flipside list would be great (although the series isn't releasing as much as it used to).

Personally, I'd like to see a list for the hundreds of obscure films that play on TCM constantly. Of course Noir and a few other lists cover quite a few - but there's so many musicals or comedies from the 30s-50s that are just criminally neglected. +Why does it seem that the Marx brothers are the only comedy team that are well-represented by official lists? Abbott and Costello, WC Fields, Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, etc could use more love (although I'm fine with keeping the Bowery Boys off).

A great idea would be a Pre-code list!

I'm glad we have a new Westerns list, and better spotlight for Indian / German films. But its rather annoying that overall - this list update didn't really create many new official checks. I don't think a single person is going to finally be motivated to watch Singin' in the Rain because its now on the Time Out Romantic list...There's thousands of films that are overlooked gems, yet we keep finding new ways to reward the same 50 films over and over and over. Perhaps a "has to be 50% new official checks" rule would be helpful?
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WalterNeff
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Minkin
Jan 19 2018, 03:29:40 AM
A great idea would be a Pre-code list!
I heartily endorse this
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joachimt
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https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/poll-lists-that-should-be-official-nominations-due-april-29/
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brokenface
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joachimt
Apr 3 2018, 12:03:26 PM
I feel like alongside poll(s) for specific lists, there could also be some generic polls about what types of lists people prefer (i.e. critics/countries/genres/awards/decades/etc) and suggestions for list subjects where they might not necessarily have a specific list to put forward.
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joachimt
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brokenface
Apr 3 2018, 12:40:51 PM
joachimt
Apr 3 2018, 12:03:26 PM
I feel like alongside poll(s) for specific lists, there could also be some generic polls about what types of lists people prefer (i.e. critics/countries/genres/awards/decades/etc) and suggestions for list subjects where they might not necessarily have a specific list to put forward.
We discussed this idea, but decided against it. If you ask "what type of list would you like to see added", a lot of people would answer "depends on which list you offer". Not everyone is looking for types of lists to fill the gaps on iCM.
A second problem is after asking this question, you'll end up with a certain type of list on top, but maybe the available lists are of less quality than the lower types.
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frbrown
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Will there be a blog post asking for list suggestions? It's only the first day, but so far, most of the posters on that thread have been forum members.
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frbrown
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What about the cases where there are multiple lists covering similar ground? The auto-nominations already include two French New Wave lists, two historical films lists, and a few Japanese lists. Will these be narrowed down to one list of each type before the voting, or no?
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beavis
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I'd love a good general Japanese list next to Junpo... but some of them are static and old, so I hope that will be taken into account when choosing one... as a negative feature of those lists I mean

made my post in the poll in the meantime, and for me (chopped down from about ten possible candidates) it came down to
-john waters annual top10
-s&s 75 hidden gems
-the golden apricot winners
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