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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 1D: Russia vs Greece vs Tunisia; Voting deadline: Nov 30
Topic Started: Nov 10 2014, 07:05:52 AM (3,565 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 1D of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManager
RussiaVoskhozhdenieThe Ascent1977Gershwin
GreeceIlektraElectra1962kingink
TunisiaSamt el qusurThe Silences of the Palace1994globetrotter

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The winner of the match is the film that beats the other 2 films head-to-head. If A "beats" B, it means that A is ranked higher than B more often than B is ranked higher than A. If there's no winner using this method, it'll be decided by average rank.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 1
Edited by mjf314, Nov 10 2014, 07:09:04 AM.
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Mario Gaborović
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A bunch of incredibly unengaging films, though technically well made.

1. Voskhozhdenie
2. Samt el qusur
3. Ilektra

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mjf314
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1. Ilektra - 9/10
2. Voskhozhdenie - 7.5/10
3. Samt el qusur - 6/10

Ilektra was one of my DtC nominations, so it should be no surprise that it's my favorite.
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Mario Gaborović
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mjf314
Nov 10 2014, 07:31:52 AM
1. Ilektra - 9/10
2. Voskhozhdenie - 7.5/10
3. Samt el qusur - 6/10

Ilektra was one of my DtC nominations, so it should be no surprise that it's my favorite.
I've read much of the Greek mythology in the past, so this film was a serious letdown to me.
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Lonewolf2003
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Al ready seen the Russian one, thought it was a great excellent picture. Going to be hard for the others to top that.
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Gershwin
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Lonewolf2003
Nov 10 2014, 09:23:50 AM
Al ready seen the Russian one, thought it was a great excellent picture. Going to be hard for the others to top that.
At least that's what I'm hoping for. :sweat:
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tirefeet
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Easy win for Russia.
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mjf314
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tirefeet
Nov 10 2014, 10:10:15 AM
Easy win for Russia.
You haven't seen Ilektra (or at least you haven't checked it) so how would you know? Ilektra has a better favorite/check ratio so it might have a chance.

Edit: I just realized that I hadn't favorited it, so I just did.
Edited by mjf314, Nov 10 2014, 10:31:32 AM.
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tirefeet
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You might be right. I downloaded Elektra once, but some issue came up with subtitles so I couldn't watch it. I'd like to see Greece in another round with Angelopoulos but with Ascent's presence it's not likely.
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mightysparks
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The Ascent is one of the most forgettable films I've ever seen :shrug:
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Voskhozhdenie is great, Ilektra is my first favourite in the world cup, and I always wanted to see Samt el qusur. Definitely liking this round.
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metaller
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Seems I'm not the only one that has already seen The Ascent. :D
The other two films have to be really good to beat that one.
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zhangalan
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Have seen The Ascent and The Silences of the Palace before.
The former is fine and I don't think a re-watch will change my feeling so much.
I don't like the latter one, but I will give it a second try.

Haven't watched the Greek one.
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joachimt
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I have seen both The Ascent and Ilektra. Will watch Samt el qusur. I will definitely rewatch The Ascent, because I'm busy rewatching my favorites. If necessary for the ranking of the three, I'll rewatch Ilektra as well.
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Dimitris Psachos Springer
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Ilektra is based on the Euripides play, the "Greek myths" topic should be of no consideration in this round.
Various plays back then (including the lost / fragmented ones) were based on local myths and usually twisted / deviated from the truthfulness of the myth and this in turn occurs in other "House of Atreides" plays.
Lest I forget, most Greek plays transcend the mythological environment of the story-tale, concerned with the behavioral irrational of the heroes/heroines e.g. in Sophocles version of Electra, the motives behind Electra's wrath are of lesser importance compared to the play's suspense. I've always preferred Euripides' version and this is the last feature masterpiece of Kakogiannis prior to his Hollywood-affection (although Zorba is pretty decent when it comes to mainstream oldies)
Bonus: splendid actors/actresses in the four main roles of the film.

I saw The Ascent during my MUBI days, same goes for Silences and I remember adoring both of them. I'll definitely get on with a rewatch at some point (which is why I haven't checked them yet) for general purposes, since I'm not participating. If anything (considering all three films are equal to one another), Tunisia and Greece would better deserve a progress due to the unknown nature of the countries' cinematographies here in the forum, Russia doesn't need any assistance on this department (I don't know however how many available Tunisian films exist compared to Greece)

P.S. I wouldn't root on an Angelopoulos selection in case Greece manages to "survive", partly because Angelopoulos is hated for all the fucking wrong reasons in this forum and also because he's probably the "auteur" of Greece for most cinephiles, just like Ray has become a mascot for India or Sembene for Senegal etc etc.
Edited by Dimitris Psachos Springer, Nov 10 2014, 06:36:17 PM.
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kingink
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I finally choose a right film and you put me against Voskhozhdenie?
Damn... Forum mafia films should be excluded from the competition. ^_^
Two perfect 10's for me, but I still prefer Ilektra.
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Lonewolf2003
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I watched Ilektra yesterday. And it's indeed a very good pic. Better than all the other movies so far in the WC. It's just unlucky it has to face of with The Ascent.
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Nov 11 2014, 09:35:15 AM.
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tirefeet
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I hope I'll get onto Elektra sometime, I'm having troubles with finding time to watch films this month.

More of the Ascent; it is a very prominent film indeed, maybe it would have become very useful against top competition in later rounds? To me it's unlikely another solid Russian film like the Return would have any trouble coming out of here. I don't how many rounds are there but you can roll with any of Ascent, Come and See, Unsent Letter, Ivan's Childhood and even Dersu Uzala to reach the final stage and bam, you put Andrei Rublev out there and you wrap this thing up just like that.

Okay just checked it, there are five rounds. Russia seems to have enough firepower to pull it off.
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Mario Gaborović
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tirefeet
Nov 11 2014, 12:07:42 PM
I don't how many rounds are there but you can roll with any of Ascent, Come and See, Unsent Letter, Ivan's Childhood and even Dersu Uzala to reach the final stage and bam, you put Andrei Rublev out there and you wrap this thing up just like that.
Come and See is a Belarusian film.
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tommy_leazaq
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tirefeet
Nov 11 2014, 12:07:42 PM
More of the Ascent; it is a very prominent film indeed, maybe it would have become very useful against top competition in later rounds? To me it's unlikely another solid Russian film like the Return would have any trouble coming out of here. I don't how many rounds are there but you can roll with any of Ascent, Come and See, Unsent Letter, Ivan's Childhood and even Dersu Uzala to reach the final stage and bam, you put Andrei Rublev out there and you wrap this thing up just like that.

Okay just checked it, there are five rounds. Russia seems to have enough firepower to pull it off.
5 Rounds, No repeating directors, and most importantly movies should have less than 1000 checks.
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tirefeet
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Dang, glad I'm not the manager then. Ascent's value seems much more clear now.
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Gershwin
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tirefeet
Nov 11 2014, 12:41:10 PM
Dang, glad I'm not the manager then. Ascent's value seems much more clear now.
Just wait for next round (if Russia manages to win this round, that is). Letter Never Sent is still far below 1,000 checks. :shifty:
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joachimt
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I rewatched The Ascent and I raised my rating to 10/10. Tough job to beat that!
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Mario Gaborović
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So far Europe kicks other continents' butt, but wait until Vietnam arrives on stage. :party:
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mjf314
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Mario Gaborović
Nov 11 2014, 10:39:00 PM
So far Europe kicks other continents' butt, but wait until Vietnam arrives on stage. :party:
I wish The Traveling Circus had been picked for Vietnam but I watched it too late to suggest it. I liked it more than When the Tenth Month Comes.

@Gershwin: I hope you'll pick One Hundred Days After Childhood for one of the rounds. Don't forget to watch it.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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I fucking hate this round. All 3 films here are my 3 favourite films in the world cup so far. I want them all to advance.

1. Ilektra (8/10)
2. Samt el qusur
3. Voskhozhdenie (7/10)
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jeroeno
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1. Voskhozhdenie (10/10)
2. Ilektra (8/10)
3. Samt el Qusur (6/10)
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Gershwin
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mjf314
Nov 12 2014, 02:16:04 AM
@Gershwin: I hope you'll pick One Hundred Days After Childhood for one of the rounds. Don't forget to watch it.
I certainly will, thanks!
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joachimt
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Here's my ranking:

1. Voskhozhdenie
2. Ilektra
3. Samt el qusur

I'm very sorry for Greece, because I love a lot of Greek cinema, but it just can't compete with Russia. Ilektra could certainly have gotten my vote in another group, but The Ascent is just too good in my opinion.

Samt el qusur was fine but I was never blown away by it (7/10), so I never hesitated to put it above Ilektra.
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Mario Gaborović
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joachimt
Nov 12 2014, 07:32:56 PM
Here's my ranking:

1. Voskhozhdenie
2. Ilektra
3. Samt el qusur

I'm very sorry for Greece, because I love a lot of Greek cinema, but it just can't compete with Russia. Ilektra could certainly have gotten my vote in another group, but The Ascent is just too good in my opinion.

Samt el qusur was fine but I was never blown away by it (7/10), so I never hesitated to put it above Ilektra.
You're not one of the "the lesser, the better" cinema fans, are you?

I couldn't see much of the substance in any of these films, because execution is fine, and it should be of highest priority. But I'm eager to find out more about these films' intellectual dimension besides flashy photography.
For me there was too many faces that don't make any expressions (Ilektra), too much sheer walking through the snow (Voskhozhdenie), and too little of plot development (Samt el qusur).
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joachimt
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Mario Gaborović
Nov 12 2014, 08:03:31 PM
joachimt
Nov 12 2014, 07:32:56 PM
Here's my ranking:

1. Voskhozhdenie
2. Ilektra
3. Samt el qusur

I'm very sorry for Greece, because I love a lot of Greek cinema, but it just can't compete with Russia. Ilektra could certainly have gotten my vote in another group, but The Ascent is just too good in my opinion.

Samt el qusur was fine but I was never blown away by it (7/10), so I never hesitated to put it above Ilektra.
You're not one of the "the lesser, the better" cinema fans, are you?

I couldn't see much of the substance in any of these films, because execution is fine, and it should be of highest priority. But I'm eager to find out more about these films' intellectual dimension besides flashy photography.
For me there was too many faces that don't make any expressions (Ilektra), too much sheer walking through the snow (Voskhozhdenie), and too little of plot development (Samt el qusur).
To be honest, I still don't know what "kind of cinema fan" I am. I like cinema. Sometimes a movie with very little in it grabs me, sometimes it doesn't. :shrug:
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tirefeet
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Mario Gaborović
Nov 12 2014, 08:03:31 PM
too much sheer walking through the snow
This just might be my thing then, hehe.

I suppose France and Japan will come up with heavy artillery sometime (Ozu and Rohmer), so Russia might be in tough in case of they draw one another.
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Mario Gaborović
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tirefeet
Nov 12 2014, 09:45:50 PM
Mario Gaborović
Nov 12 2014, 08:03:31 PM
too much sheer walking through the snow
This just might be my thing then, hehe.

I suppose France and Japan will come up with heavy artillery sometime (Ozu and Rohmer), so Russia might be in tough in case of they draw one another.
I would like to see the draw to be made for all possible fixtures known beforehand until the final, of course after two pots selected for the Round 16 (big cinematic countries against the small ones).
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Gershwin
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tirefeet
Nov 12 2014, 09:45:50 PM
Mario Gaborović
Nov 12 2014, 08:03:31 PM
too much sheer walking through the snow
This just might be my thing then, hehe.

I suppose France and Japan will come up with heavy artillery sometime (Ozu and Rohmer), so Russia might be in tough in case of they draw one another.
Well, if things turn out alright, Russia won't be meeting France this year, because Denmark is gonna kick out the French in the very first round. :cowboy:

Fingers crossed.
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Jay Mars
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I haven't seen the Greek or Tunisian entries yet, but it will be tough for them to beat the Russian entry. It's a great movie, but we'll see. Anything's possible.
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jeff_v
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I gave both The Ascent and Ilektra the same rating on Criticker. Looks like I need something more granular than a 100-pt scale.

Since I only need to check out one additional movie for this batch, I think I'll be able to participate.
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Dimitris Psachos Springer
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"You're not one of the "the lesser, the better" cinema fans, are you?"

If "canon films" never existed (from the obvious usual suspects of U.S.A., France, Japan, Russia, Germany and Italy to begin with) and all cine-nations had an equal participation in lists / polls / results, then we wouldn't have any of those unofficial (but quite true in their nature) terms.

By the way, all 3 films retain very much a high and mighty value beyond the surerfluous comment about cinematography. Frankly, I don't understand why a Thunder in the Mountain or a Claire's Knee just because it comes from a Naruse / Rhomer buntch are of exceptional cinematic importance compared to the "flashy photography" of Silences and the integral sentimentality is produces in its romantic spectrum!

That whole "big name countries" is part of the singularity of capitalism's cash-in in certain countries, either commercially or art-house-y (particularly the "Iranian Spring" trends or a "contemporary South Korean cinema" mass-appreciation syndrome)
Edited by Dimitris Psachos Springer, Nov 13 2014, 04:39:34 PM.
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jeff_v
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Ok, this was a tough one because I liked all three, but I'm going to have to go with:

1. Voskhozhdenie / The Ascent
2. Ilektra
3. Samt el qusur / The Silences of the Palace

Good crop of films there.
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metaller
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Ok, just watched the thiird film. This round was ridiculous! Even the film I ranked third would have been a contender for victory in the three previous rounds. Group of death! Also, two new entries for my 500<400 submission next year.

1. Voskhozhdenie / The Ascent
2. Ilektra
3. Samt el qusur / The Silences of the Palace

my quick thoughts on each film
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beavis
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1. Voskhozhdenie 8,5
2. Ilektra 8
3. Samt el Qusur 7,5

It's not a hard choice between my numbers one and two, but they are still só close to each other for me, that it IS kinda hard having to place Ilektra second. The classic story, stark setting and music all make it something special.... the Russian just has a slight edge on the cinematic level, and that counts when we're talking movies. Number three was a good choice aswell, it looks nice and there's (also) a lot of beautiful music in there. I just thought it moved a bit too slow, with a lot of suggestion and not a lot of drama that you wouldn't expect in such a setting... it's not exactly superficial, but it could have cut a lot deeper at the same time.
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