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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 1E: Japan vs Czech Republic vs New Zealand; Voting deadline: Dec 14
Topic Started: Nov 23 2014, 04:27:08 AM (2,581 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 1E of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManager
JapanDoro no kawaMuddy River1981Melvelet
Czech RepublicPelíškyCosy Dens1999HVM
New ZealandSmash Palace1982monty

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The winner of the match is the film that beats the other 2 films head-to-head. If A "beats" B, it means that A is ranked higher than B more often than B is ranked higher than A. If there's no winner using this method, it'll be decided by average rank.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 1
Edited by mjf314, Nov 23 2014, 04:27:47 AM.
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Mario Gaborović
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1. Doro no kawa
2. Smash Palace
3. Pelíšky
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metaller
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Now, finally, I can't avoid Muddy River any longer ;)

Looking forward to all 3 films. :)
Edited by metaller, Nov 23 2014, 12:43:19 PM.
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monty
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I guess this means Muddy River will be #1 next time out for the <400 list.
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joachimt
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monty
Nov 23 2014, 12:59:10 PM
I guess this means Muddy River will be #1 next time out for the <400 list.
Unless we manage to get 269 participants this round. :lol:
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mjf314
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monty
Nov 23 2014, 12:59:10 PM
I guess this means Muddy River will be #1 next time out for the <400 list.
With so many World Cup participants, I think a lot of films will be making big jumps on the 500<400 list. Even something outside the top 100 could jump straight to #1 if it gets a very good World Cup reception. Maybe Ah Ying will be #1 next year.
Edited by mjf314, Nov 23 2014, 01:22:32 PM.
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brokenface
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1. Muddy River
2. Pelisky
3. Smash Palace

expect Muddy River to walk this round.

Pelisky was a nice film in the Oscar best foreign film category way (universally relatable characters in specific time/place/culture, some comedy, some drama) - interesting that the english translation for title is Cosy Dens 'cause I did feel it was altogether a bit too cosy, a little too sepia-toned in its nostalgia. maybe need to be Czech to get some aspects.

Smash Palace I didn't feel got the tone consistent - think it would've been better if it stayed focused on being a character piece than trying to deliver a thriller type finale. But as the director has gone on to mainly make Hollywood thrillers, I guess the latter is more his interest.
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joachimt
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1. Muddy River
2. Pelisky
3. Smash Palace

Very easy choice on the #1 spot. Had more trouble deciding between #2 and #3. I expected more from Pelisky. There were some great scenes, some even hilarious, but overall I thought the movie was very uneven and several characters not really interesting. I would have preferred if it focused less on the supporting characters and more on the three teenagers. I don't understand the very high praise. 7/10
Smash Palace felt like a decent TV-movie. Certainly not bad, but not very special. 7/10
I slightly prefer Pelisky, because it was more original. In a year I will remember more from Pelisky than from Smash Palace.
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Lonewolf2003
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Why isn't this one a header at the top of the forumlist?
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Nov 26 2014, 04:36:49 PM.
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mightysparks
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Lonewolf2003
Nov 26 2014, 04:36:28 PM
Why isn't this one a header at the top of the forumlist?
Because I've been busy and not really on the forum much. I will add it now.
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Cocoa
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My number ones have never won so far. Let's see if the trend will be broken this match :teehee:

1. Muddy River
2. Pelíšky
3. Smash Palace
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tommy_leazaq
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Already seen Pelisky. It's one of the few coming-of-age movies that I like. Maybe because it portrayed parent's viewpoints too. Some parts and both the leads' parents were quite funny. 7.2/10
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tommy_leazaq
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Everyone seems to be in awe of Muddy River. Let's see. Popular opinion seldom works for me.

Yeah, Ascent may end up as the winner for me too but I'm always a sucker for War movies (esp WWII films. They are my most favorite and American civil War is my least one.. Hmm.. Might be a good topic for a poll). But Drama is a different matter altogether. Didn't like Au Hasard that much. And I am slowly getting tired of sad Dramas involving kids as a manipulatve device. Hope this is not one such film.
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Lonewolf2003
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Ranking them was easy again this round.

1. Doro no kawa (Muddy River): 8.2 - A good, very humane coming-of-age story.

2. Smash Palace: 7 - Decent movie about a guy who steadily loses it when his wife leaves him with their daughter. Bruno Lawrence is very good in the lead as a guy who doesn't really understand the motivations of his wife (and other people) and makes the wrong choice constantly to make things worse the whole time.

3. Pelísky (Cosy Dens): 6.2- So apparently Czechs do hold a live carper in their tub on Christmas. That and some other Czech customs were fun to learn through this movie. But beside that I was pretty bored with it. The movie felt too unfocused; trying to tell a triangle love story, but also a story about non-understanding dads, and about dating as a 40+ year old and about the difference between communist family and an anti-communist one. More importantly Czech humor doesn't seem to suit me. I maybe grinned a few times during this comedy.
But the ending almost redeems the whole movie. I'm familiar with the Prague Spring and the Russian invasion that ended it. But somehow it never crossed my mind that this movie would end with that. That ending were the Russian put an end to the little bit of liberalization the Czechs had, puts the movie in a whole new different light.

Edited by Lonewolf2003, Nov 28 2014, 01:44:16 PM.
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Armoreska
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See Pelisky in the HDTV version if you can afford it
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Lilarcor
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1. Doro no kawa 8/10
What an excellent and careful examination of a family and children's innocence.
Spoiler: click to toggle


2. Pelísky 7/10
A bit all over the place however the ending ties things up masterfully.

3. Smash Palace 7/10
Like joachimt I got the TV-movie feel from this. Visually there are a few scenes that elevate it from that feeling, such as the extended racing scenes. That aside, it's a completely forgettable but decent movie.
Edited by Lilarcor, Nov 29 2014, 11:48:36 AM.
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zhangalan
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Smash Palace
The lead has the same name with me and he shows his D and gets his a@@ beaten :yucky: This is enough for me to make it the least favourite.

Just kidding. I don't agree the film is forgettable. On the other hand I like it a lot. The lead is so extraordinary. He surely likes his family life and his daughter, but meanwhile he makes a lot of wrong decisions. He is one that I pity but meanwhile can never stand on his side, but this is what makes the film great. I mean, this kind of person really lives in real life and the film gives a convincing portrait with minor details (the scene with Al and Jacq's argument ends up in domestic rape while their daughter hides alone in the car is really impressive). Apart from the lead, the other characters also shine. When I watched La Nana, I have the feeling that the film puts focus on Raquel and ignores other characters and it just puts other characters into a single group that serves the purpose to show what Raquel is. On the other hand, you can see different personalities of different characters and their different interactions with the lead in Smash Palace. And someone complains that it should not turn into a thriller but imo this suits the personality of the character and enhances the character study. I also like how it ends up with the close ups of the old's laugh and the young's sad face. It doea not give judgement on its own after all but I like this!
Edited by zhangalan, Nov 29 2014, 12:49:16 PM.
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zhangalan
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btw, monty recommends me to see New World (Korean one, not Malick). Andhe chooses La Nana and Smash Palace. Guess characters are what comes first to monty when he judges a film. And not by coincidence the leads of both films surely have similarity in their personality (you know what I mean tehe )
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Armoreska
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1. Pelisky 8(7.5)/10
I rarely laugh anymore watching any comedies, but this one did it a few times
2. Doro no kawa 7(.5)/10
3. Smash Palace 7/10
last one's got a boost for the 80s feel and racing
Edited by Armoreska, Nov 29 2014, 04:38:59 PM.
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joachimt
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Armoreska
Nov 29 2014, 04:38:06 PM
1. Pelisky 8(7.5)/10
I rarely laugh anymore watching any comedies, but this one did it a few times
2. Doro no kawa 7(.5)/10
3. Smash Palace 7/10
last one's got a boost for the 80s feel and racing
The first one (of 7) who doesn't put Muddy River on #1.
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jvv
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Loved the characters and atmosphere in both Doro no kawa and Pelíšky, but the former one has a better story. I disliked Smash Palace, especially the acting of the woman was cringe worthy.

1. Doro no kawa 8/10
2. Pelíšky 8/10
3. Smash Palace 4/10
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joachimt
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This is very rare. Jvv giving a 4/10! :blink:
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jvv
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joachimt
Nov 29 2014, 10:25:10 PM
This is very rare. Jvv giving a 4/10! :blink:
Yeah, that actress really worked on my nerves. Everybody else's acting was OK to even good (the girl), but her ... :yucky: .
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zhangalan
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Muddy River

I want to discuss but can't describe it in words.

All I can say is that Melvelet obviously picks a wrong film...... for the group stage.

And my friend in this world there are two kinds of films you want to watch in cinema. One that shows some big scenes like Gravity or Avatar. And one that you want to sit in the darkness alone and just get yourself immersed into the world without other interruption. Muddy River is the latter one.

And one more thing. There is a Chinese saying called 'sad but not tragic"/'sad but not hurt"(哀而不傷). I know many people love Grave of the Fireflies but I'm afraid this one disgusts me a lot. I just think that it injects too much force to try to ask people to cry and pity but ultimately it fails hard on me. Muddy River on the other hand shows people who are assuamably living in shadow and despair after the war, but you can still see them bear the pain meanwhile seek joy in life. The film does still make me lose some water, but overall it shows what 'sad but not tragic" is.

And if you want to understand what I mean, look at this scene. Easily one of the most emotional moment in the history of cinema.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by zhangalan, Nov 30 2014, 03:48:21 AM.
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joachimt
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zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
......And one that you want to sit in the darkness alone and just get yourself immersed into the world without other interruption. Muddy River is the latter one.
:poshclap:
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Nov 30 2014, 07:13:55 AM
zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
......And one that you want to sit in the darkness alone and just get yourself immersed into the world without other interruption. Muddy River is the latter one.
:poshclap:
:poshclap:
Clapping for myself is great :clap:
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joachimt
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zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 07:31:50 AM
joachimt
Nov 30 2014, 07:13:55 AM
zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
......And one that you want to sit in the darkness alone and just get yourself immersed into the world without other interruption. Muddy River is the latter one.
:poshclap:
:poshclap:
Clapping for myself is great :clap:
Just like laughing at your own jokes. :lol:
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Melvelet
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zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
All I can say is that Melvelet obviously picks a wrong film...... for the group stage.
I need something that can fight 2 competitors :)
Probably won't take such a film that is well-loved already from now on. It's rather lame when the competitors have hardly any chance and only a few of the voters haven't seen the film yet which might also discourage people to watch the other two movies of a rather one-sided match. I guess there will be some kind of resumee after/at the end of the first round?

PS: Love Muddy Rivers and still Grave of the Fireflies was the only film I promoted to 10 stars this year (and it's the only film that ever made me cry post-childhood) ;)
Edited by Melvelet, Nov 30 2014, 07:48:00 AM.
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zhangalan
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Melvelet
Nov 30 2014, 07:46:37 AM
zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
All I can say is that Melvelet obviously picks a wrong film...... for the group stage.
I need something that can fight 2 competitors :)
Probably won't take such a film that is well-loved already from now on. It's rather lame when the competitors have hardly any chance and only a few of the voters haven't seen the film yet which might also discourage people to watch the other two movies of a rather one-sided match. I guess there will be some kind of resumee after/at the end of the first round?

PS: Love Muddy Rivers and still Grave of the Fireflies was the only film I promoted to 10 stars this year (and it's the only film that ever made me cry post-childhood) ;)
Don't worry. In fact I just use it to imply how strong Muddy River is. It's even the kind of film that can be used in the final. And a strong country like Japan has many high quality contenders, so it's not a matter of concern. :lol:
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Melvelet
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zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 11:31:15 AM
Melvelet
Nov 30 2014, 07:46:37 AM
zhangalan
Nov 30 2014, 03:44:18 AM
All I can say is that Melvelet obviously picks a wrong film...... for the group stage.
I need something that can fight 2 competitors :)
Probably won't take such a film that is well-loved already from now on. It's rather lame when the competitors have hardly any chance and only a few of the voters haven't seen the film yet which might also discourage people to watch the other two movies of a rather one-sided match. I guess there will be some kind of resumee after/at the end of the first round?

PS: Love Muddy Rivers and still Grave of the Fireflies was the only film I promoted to 10 stars this year (and it's the only film that ever made me cry post-childhood) ;)
Don't worry. In fact I just use it to imply how strong Muddy River is. It's even the kind of film that can be used in the final. And a strong country like Japan has many high quality contenders, so it's not a matter of concern. :lol:
I was going to post something similar anyway. ^_^
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mightysparks
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Doro no kawa (1981)
Wasn't particularly interested in the story and found it quite generic and "manipulative". Someone mentioned Grave of the Fireflies and I feel similarly about that one too (except Muddy River is slightly better). Showing sad, but not making you 'feel' sad.

Pelíšky (1999)
Harmless film, but that's part of the problem; it's just a general coming-of-age story. Found the humour a little childish too. Not a bad film, but doesn't really do anything to stand out from the crowd.

Smash Palace (1982)
The acting from the lead was great and made a flawed character quite sympathetic. The mother was a total cow, but I found it interesting how both parents were being selfish and didn't seem interested in anyone besides themselves (the mother wanting to screw around and leave, the father obsessed with seeing his daughter; and no-one really thinking of what's best for the daughter), but the mother is the only one coming out looking like the bad guy (probably because who wouldn't go insane trying to deal with that woman). I thought the acting was good all around, even from the girl. The ending was a bit 'so what?'. It was lacking in a lot of ways as well though so it's far from a great film or a favourite film, but overall a good watch.

Final ranking of the films:
Smash Palace (1982)
Doro no kawa (1981)
Pelíšky (1999)
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Angel Glez
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1. Smash Palace
2. Muddy River
3. Cosy Dens

Still I would like to thank HVM for choosing a recent Czech movie instead of a typical Czechoslovakian title of the 60s. Unfortunately the two other competitors are tough, and the film itself is not a favorite of mine (I slightly prefer Hrebejk's following effort "Divided We Fall").
Great choice for Kiwiland and... very unrisky one for the Land of the Rising Sun! :P
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joachimt
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Two #1-spots for Smash Palace in a row. Will this be the turning point of this match? :o
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Armoreska
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joachimt
Dec 2 2014, 10:24:38 AM
Two #1-spots for Smash Palace in a row. Will this be the turning point of this match? :o
Is this a rhetorical question?
I doubt anyone's even voting Muddy River #3
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joachimt
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Armoreska
Dec 2 2014, 10:51:37 AM
joachimt
Dec 2 2014, 10:24:38 AM
Two #1-spots for Smash Palace in a row. Will this be the turning point of this match? :o
Is this a rhetorical question?
I doubt anyone's even voting Muddy River #3
Of course. This will still be a walkover for Muddy River despite a few weird voters. :P
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Dec 2 2014, 10:54:22 AM
Armoreska
Dec 2 2014, 10:51:37 AM
joachimt
Dec 2 2014, 10:24:38 AM
Two #1-spots for Smash Palace in a row. Will this be the turning point of this match? :o
Is this a rhetorical question?
I doubt anyone's even voting Muddy River #3
Of course. This will still be a walkover for Muddy River despite a few weird voters. :P
But I must admit that Smash Palace is an intereting film.

Nice choice, monty. :thumbsup:

Still Muddy River is among my top favaurite now( what about doing a personal top 10/top 5 of the group stage after the whole round? Alright, I know it is a redundant act)

Too bad I only have time for movies during weekend now, but let's what Cosy Dens can give me.
Edited by zhangalan, Dec 2 2014, 11:27:18 AM.
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kingink
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1. Muddy River 8/10
2. Pelisky 7/10
3. Smash Palace 6/10

I had some trouble deciding between the #2 and #3 but after letting Pelisky settle down in me, I gave it a 7 instead of a 6. I prefer the performances in Smash Palace, but the story didn't really do anything for me. Their reactions just seemed a bit stupid and hot-headed. Pelisky used it's humor in order to make a comment about the countries society back then. Not a strong 7 for me, but still I had to rate it more than Smash palace.
Muddy river was a very good film. Not the masterpiece I expected from what I heard about it all this time, but a heart-warming film and the only one from these three
that I'll watch again at some time in the future.
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zhangalan
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Wow, what a group! The best one so far! I enjoy all three and add them to my best >400 checks list.
Cosy Dens is an enjoyable comedy, but I think Smash Palace impresses me more. No need more talking on Muddy River.

1. Muddy River
2. Smash Palace
3. Cosy Dens
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beavis
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1. Muddy River (8,5)
2. Pelisky (8)
3. Smash Palace (7)

Muddy River is a great film in every respect. I even liked the kids :)
Pelisky was very well written and acted, and very funny! even while always keeping it grounded in the broader tragic history. It says a lot of universal things about family dynamics and coping with life too.
Smash Palace was just good. Good acting in the first place and some nice dynamic scenes in racecars and a helicopter. Never boring. But the characterisation often seems a bit over the top. It's cool if someone goes beserk in the movies, but it is almost never very believable.
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klaus78
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1. Doro no kawa (Japan)
2. Pelíšky (Czech Republic)
3. Smash Palace (New Zealand)
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