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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 1F: Sweden vs Finland vs Hong Kong; Voting deadline: Dec 28
Topic Started: Dec 6 2014, 11:33:09 PM (3,736 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 1F of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManager
SwedenOle dole doffWho Saw Him Die?1968Dolwphin
FinlandTuntematon sotilasThe Unknown Soldier1955joachimt
Hong KongBoon bin yenAh Ying1983mjf314

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The winner of the match is the film that beats the other 2 films head-to-head. If A "beats" B, it means that A is ranked higher than B more often than B is ranked higher than A. If there's no winner using this method, it'll be decided by average rank.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 1
Edited by mjf314, Dec 10 2014, 03:25:18 AM.
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Gershwin
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Title says 1E instead of 1F...
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joachimt
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Great, my pick. :)
I didn't even favorite it myself. I rated it 8/10, so I might even rewatch it if I like (one of) the others enough.
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mjf314
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joachimt
Dec 7 2014, 08:51:15 PM
Great, my pick. :)
I didn't even favorite it myself. I rated it 8/10, so I might even rewatch it if I like (one of) the others enough.
I see that Dolwphin didn't favorite his nomination either, so Ah Ying is the only one that was good enough for a favorite. It should be an easy win for Ah Ying.

Here's what Time Out and LoveHKFilm wrote about Ah Ying:
http://www.timeout.com.hk/film/features/49170/the-100-greatest-hong-kong-films3.html
 
“I want to make a film that reflects our time. If I don’t, no one will know we ever existed.”

A pioneer of Chinese docu-drama, Fong’s naturalistic movie compassionately tells the tale of an unlikely relationship between two frustrated dreamers: a young woman (Hui essentially playing herself) reluctantly working for her fish hawker parents, and an idealistic middle-aged acting teacher (Wang) hoping to realise his film project.

http://www.lovehkfilm.com/blog/damnyoukozo/2012/03/15/top-100-hong-kong-films-of-the-eighties-numbers-60-41/
 
Few Hong Kong films are as acclaimed as Allen Fong’s AH YING, an authentic and low-key look at Hong Kong people as they undergo real, lived-in change and not the sudden emotional upheaval of manufactured melodrama. Says Tim Youngs, “What makes Allen Fong’s gentle docudrama truly shine, beyond absorbing scenes of community, family and the film scene, is the charming performance by its newcomer star.” Based in part on the real experiences of lead Hui So-Ying who, by the way, still works in Hong Kong film. She has a supporting role in Ann Hui’s A SIMPLE LIFE.
Edited by mjf314, Dec 8 2014, 12:33:48 AM.
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joachimt
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mjf314
Dec 8 2014, 12:33:19 AM
joachimt
Dec 7 2014, 08:51:15 PM
Great, my pick. :)
I didn't even favorite it myself. I rated it 8/10, so I might even rewatch it if I like (one of) the others enough.
I see that Dolwphin didn't favorite his nomination either, so Ah Ying is the only one that was good enough for a favorite. It should be an easy win for Ah Ying.
My pick has the highest IMDB-rating and we all know IMDB is always right. -_-
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mjf314
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joachimt
Dec 8 2014, 12:31:24 PM
My pick has the highest IMDB-rating and we all know IMDB is always right. -_-
Mubi ratings are right far more often.

Mubi ratings:
Ah Ying: 4.6/5
The Unknown Soldier: 4.1/5
Who Saw Him Die?: 3.7/5
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joachimt
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I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
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mjf314
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zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
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mightysparks
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I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
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mjf314
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Oops, I see that I had the wrong iCM link. :( But somehow I got an image from the correct film. I'm not sure how that happened.
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joachimt
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mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
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Armoreska
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joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 06:06:07 PM
mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
I plan to watch both btw
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Mario Gaborović
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Armoreska
Dec 10 2014, 06:09:14 PM
joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 06:06:07 PM
mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
I plan to watch both btw
I've seen it by mistake but then it was too late to stop it (why should I, anyway)? However it's very good, a relentless war film; 1955 version is probably less brutal yet more arty.
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
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monty
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Not overly impressed by either of the two versions of Tuntematon sotilas under discussion here. If pressed, I might give the edge to the 1985 one (mainly for its more impressive battle sequences), though I've seen the anti-war message presented much better elsewhere. I guess these films are great lessons in patriotism for any Finnish though.
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joachimt
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mjf314
Dec 10 2014, 02:01:05 AM
zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
You have seen it yourself, mjf. Didn't you have problems with the subs?
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mightysparks
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joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 06:06:07 PM
mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
The reason I realised I was watching the wrong version was because it was really bad and it didn't seem like something someone would have chosen for this, so I was curious to see what made them [you] pick it. Then I saw '1955'...
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tommy_leazaq
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mightysparks
Dec 11 2014, 01:02:34 AM
joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 06:06:07 PM
mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
The reason I realised I was watching the wrong version was because it was really bad and it didn't seem like something someone would have chosen for this, so I was curious to see what made them [you] pick it. Then I saw '1955'...
Then you ACTUALLY saw the "1955" and hated more than 1985.

THE END.
:P
Edited by tommy_leazaq, Dec 11 2014, 03:02:53 AM.
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mjf314
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joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 09:42:21 PM
You have seen it yourself, mjf. Didn't you have problems with the subs?
I probably had to pause or rewind in some parts, but I don't remember exactly how often. I liked it enough to favorite it, so the subs didn't ruin the film for me. The sub quality is similar to A Brighter Summer Day which is popular on this forum.

Pausing doesn't bother me very much unless it's really a lot of pausing. I use MPC, and I just press space to pause/unpause, and left to rewind 5 seconds. If you don't use those keyboard shortcuts then I guess pausing and rewinding would be more annoying.
Edited by mjf314, Dec 11 2014, 04:08:24 AM.
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tommy_leazaq
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Mario Gaborović
Dec 10 2014, 06:24:14 PM
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
It is still early days for this group and I guess all those three movies are bit obscure for even for the best of us. So we should wait a bit I guess. I got all the three movies with me, thanks to Joachimt, but I'm in a mad rush now to watch movies from some of my favorite directors before the Director poll deadline. So I'll jump in to this cup at the last week only.
Edited by tommy_leazaq, Dec 11 2014, 03:16:18 AM.
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joachimt
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Mario Gaborović
Dec 10 2014, 06:24:14 PM
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
I am normally one of the first people to vote, but I'm hardly at home the last few days, so I'm only watching silent movies on my iPad in between stuff when I'm not at home. I hope to continue Ah Ying this evening and watch Ole tomorrow.
Edited by joachimt, Dec 11 2014, 07:09:50 AM.
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mightysparks
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I've been trying to watch that Finnish movie for days but I keep downloading it wrong :angry:
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Lonewolf2003
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Mario Gaborović
Dec 10 2014, 06:24:14 PM
Armoreska
Dec 10 2014, 06:09:14 PM
joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 06:06:07 PM
mightysparks
Dec 10 2014, 03:18:42 AM
I just watched 30 mins of the Finnish movie before realising it was supposed to be the 1955 version and I had the 1985 version :'(
Is the 1985-version any good? I might pick that then for the next round. :lol:
I plan to watch both btw
I've seen it by mistake but then it was too late to stop it (why should I, anyway)? However it's very good, a relentless war film; 1955 version is probably less brutal yet more arty.
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
My laptop is kaput after having spilt some water on itb :pinch: , so I won't be able to partcipate till it's fixed or I get a new one.
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kingink
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joachimt
Dec 11 2014, 07:09:29 AM
Mario Gaborović
Dec 10 2014, 06:24:14 PM
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
I am normally one of the first people to vote, but I'm hardly at home the last few days, so I'm only watching silent movies on my iPad in between stuff when I'm not at home. I hope to continue Ah Ying this evening and watch Ole tomorrow.
I trust you Joachim that even if all of us forget all about the world cup and stop voting, you'll be the one who'll continue to vote and ultimately nominate new films, rate them and find the winner.

So don't be afraid Mario. We'll have a winner no matter what! :P

Seriously now, December is always a very busy month for all of us, with work that needs to be done by the end of the year, so it's only natural to have less votes for this round, for now at least.
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Angel Glez
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mjf314
Dec 11 2014, 03:06:45 AM
joachimt
Dec 10 2014, 09:42:21 PM
You have seen it yourself, mjf. Didn't you have problems with the subs?
I probably had to pause or rewind in some parts, but I don't remember exactly how often. I liked it enough to favorite it, so the subs didn't ruin the film for me. The sub quality is similar to A Brighter Summer Day which is popular on this forum.
And text is not really important. Probably some lines are even improvised.
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Lilarcor
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I've seen Tuntematon sotilas (1955). Several spoilers ahead.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Lilarcor, Dec 11 2014, 02:02:03 PM.
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monty
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Lilarcor
Dec 11 2014, 01:57:49 PM
I've seen Tuntematon sotilas (1955). Several spoilers ahead.

Spoiler: click to toggle
I wholeheartedly agree.
As I'm feeling generous, my rating for it would be
Spoiler: click to toggle
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joachimt
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kingink
Dec 11 2014, 11:30:34 AM
joachimt
Dec 11 2014, 07:09:29 AM
Mario Gaborović
Dec 10 2014, 06:24:14 PM
Still no votes, I hope this cup is not dying out slowly. :unsure:
I am normally one of the first people to vote, but I'm hardly at home the last few days, so I'm only watching silent movies on my iPad in between stuff when I'm not at home. I hope to continue Ah Ying this evening and watch Ole tomorrow.
I trust you Joachim that even if all of us forget all about the world cup and stop voting, you'll be the one who'll continue to vote and ultimately nominate new films, rate them and find the winner.

So don't be afraid Mario. We'll have a winner no matter what! :P
:lol:
Of course, I'll still be here watching those movies if everyone has vanished. :thumbsup:

I still didn't manage to continu watching, though. Too busy... :(
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zhangalan
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mjf314
Dec 10 2014, 02:01:05 AM
zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
First I need someone else to help me make the sub in srt format. Secondly I am too busy recently. I wonder extending the match really helps. Of course the good thing is that the film has Eng sub already, but it is around 2 hour long and I need to check and type in at what time the lines appear myself.

Maybe the best way is that others type down the lines they feel difficult to read (indicating the time at which the lines appear), and then I'll do the corresponding subs.

One more thing, is there anyone willing to make the srt file?
Edited by zhangalan, Dec 12 2014, 11:31:25 AM.
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funkybusiness
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zhangalan
Dec 12 2014, 11:31:08 AM
mjf314
Dec 10 2014, 02:01:05 AM
zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
First I need someone else to help me make the sub in srt format. Secondly I am too busy recently. I wonder extending the match really helps. Of course the good thing is that the film has Eng sub already, but it is around 2 hour long and I need to check and type in at what time the lines appear myself.

Maybe the best way is that others type down the lines they feel difficult to read (indicating the time at which the lines appear), and then I'll do the corresponding subs.

One more thing, is there anyone willing to make the srt file?
If given a list of the lines + approximate timings (within a couple seconds) I could easily create subtitles but I don't feel incredibly motivated to do all the subtitles for the full 2 hour film. If it was only the hard to read lines, then yeah, I'd probably do it.
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joachimt
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funkybusiness
Dec 12 2014, 11:41:00 AM
zhangalan
Dec 12 2014, 11:31:08 AM
mjf314
Dec 10 2014, 02:01:05 AM
zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
First I need someone else to help me make the sub in srt format. Secondly I am too busy recently. I wonder extending the match really helps. Of course the good thing is that the film has Eng sub already, but it is around 2 hour long and I need to check and type in at what time the lines appear myself.

Maybe the best way is that others type down the lines they feel difficult to read (indicating the time at which the lines appear), and then I'll do the corresponding subs.

One more thing, is there anyone willing to make the srt file?
If given a list of the lines + approximate timings (within a couple seconds) I could easily create subtitles but I don't feel incredibly motivated to do all the subtitles for the full 2 hour film. If it was only the hard to read lines, then yeah, I'd probably do it.
I've watched a lot more in the meantime. I don't think it's worth the effort. It is watchable as it is. True, some lines are very hard to read, but you can manage by pausing or accepting that you miss a few words. It's still a lot better than the subs from that Indian donkey.
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Dec 12 2014, 12:19:21 PM
funkybusiness
Dec 12 2014, 11:41:00 AM
zhangalan
Dec 12 2014, 11:31:08 AM
mjf314
Dec 10 2014, 02:01:05 AM
zhangalan
Dec 9 2014, 09:42:03 PM
joachimt
Dec 9 2014, 09:25:10 PM
I just started watching Ah Ying. Am I the only one having troubles reading the subs? Some lines are ok, but a lot of lines disappear after one or two seconds. Normally that's already pretty fast, but with this quality it's often impossible for me to read it without pausing the movie. :(
Urr, should your other self make the sub? Although I highly doubt if I can make it in time.
How long do you think it would take you? I can extend the match a week or two if it means that you'll make subs.
First I need someone else to help me make the sub in srt format. Secondly I am too busy recently. I wonder extending the match really helps. Of course the good thing is that the film has Eng sub already, but it is around 2 hour long and I need to check and type in at what time the lines appear myself.

Maybe the best way is that others type down the lines they feel difficult to read (indicating the time at which the lines appear), and then I'll do the corresponding subs.

One more thing, is there anyone willing to make the srt file?
If given a list of the lines + approximate timings (within a couple seconds) I could easily create subtitles but I don't feel incredibly motivated to do all the subtitles for the full 2 hour film. If it was only the hard to read lines, then yeah, I'd probably do it.
I've watched a lot more in the meantime. I don't think it's worth the effort. It is watchable as it is. True, some lines are very hard to read, but you can manage by pausing or accepting that you miss a few words. It's still a lot better than the subs from that Indian donkey.
Ok. Lets have a survey. Anyone thinks improved sub is needed?
If yes, maybe I can try my best. If no, the end.
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Mario Gaborović
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I find "Ole dole doff" very interesting film. It kinda reminds me of Repulsion, which copycat could have been had director decided to put some extra "nightmare" scenes.
But this is a film with one big & obvious shortcoming, which is teacher's unrealistic behavior in response to these "wild" children. I know it's 1968 and Sweden, but man... you really have to be bitchin' wuss to fall into depression because of these kids, the most average ones you can get I'd say. The film brought back memories from my school days, and how some pupils used to throw chairs and imitate kung-fu moves at teachers. On the other hand, most of the teachers didn't care much about us getting knowledge, but only how to hold their class with minimum lecture so they could earn their miserable wages. And here you have a teacher who's at the verge of a nervous breakdown because somebody cursed.
I liked Oscarsson's performance and the general idea, though. I'm not sure what the last sequence is about but I liked the way it was shot.
7/10
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Mario Gaborović
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1. Ole dole doff 7/10
2. Boon bin yen aka Ah Ying 6.5/10
3. Tuntematon sotilas 6/10
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joachimt
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1. Tuntematon sotilas
2. Ole dole doff
3. Boon bin yen

I hesitated two vote against my own pick, because I do think Ole Dole Doff is an interesting pick, but the shortcomings mentioned by Mario bothered me too much. Maybe it's a better movie than Tuntematon Sotilas, but I enjoyed the latter more. Can't help it, I just like war movies.
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Lilarcor
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Boon bin yen
I'm not sure why I wasn't more enamored by this movie about movie-making. The idea of the two main characters here is easy for me to identify myself with.. but the execution of most relationship scenes, whether its family, love or friendships plotlines fall flat for me. There are some nice touches even here though (the unbuttoning scene for example, even though its very much on the nose). Camera-wise it does a lot with cramped space. 6/10

Ole dole doff
Being so flashy and uncritical in its style I was certain this was a debut film by this director, but it turns out that this is actually his second feature film. When the movie finds its core it is really great. I think most scenes outside the classroom (especially the relationship scenes) are fantastic. Strangely many of the classroom scenes don't work for me, there's something 'off' about them, much like the teacher its not very confident. I never buy the lead actor as a teacher. 6/10

I struggle to decide which to put first of these two, let's try this:

1. Boon bin yen 6/10
2. Ole dole doff 6/10
3. Tuntematon sotilas 5/10
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klaus78
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1. Ole dole doff (Sweden)
2. Boon bin yen (Hong Kong)
3. Tuntematon sotilas (Finland)
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Cocoa
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This felt like the most underwhelming bunch of films so far :'(

1. Ole dole doff
2. Boon bin yen
3. Tuntematon sotilas
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Angel Glez
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1. Ah Ying
2. The Unknown Soldier
3. Who Saw Him Die?

I have some problems with the Swedish film and its cold mix of psychology and documentary. The other two are good in its own way, Ah Ying is first because it's riskier.
Edited by Angel Glez, Dec 16 2014, 11:29:32 AM.
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mightysparks
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Tuntematon sotilas (1955)
After downloading the wrong movie, then accidentally clicking 'open with' instead of save and closing it off, and then forgetting, I FINALLY acquired the right film. Unfortunately, it wasn't worth all that. It was soooo goddamn cheesy and melodramatic with that annoying over the top, fake and stagey kind of acting that's normally typical of 40s Hollywood. And oh god the cheesy dialogue. None of the characters felt like 'people'/were well developed, they were all just stereotypes chucked in for no reason. It felt like sometimes it was trying to be a comedy, except it wasn't funny; just awkward. From what I saw of the 1985 version, it's no better but had a better style (no music, very raw, handheld etc), but was still very melodramatic and cheesy.

Just read Lilarcor's spoiler and pretty much echo his sentiments (though I didn't quite feel the 'natural' comraderie).

Ole dole doff (1968)
Not bad, but nothing great either. It was just there and it was just 'good'. It felt somewhat preachy at times. The lead was very good, though his character's behaviour was just confusing. I couldn't really identify with much of it either.

Boon bin yen (1983)
Subtitles made this difficult to watch, but I just didn't find it that interesting anyway. Not really the film's fault in this case, it's just not for me.


Final ranking of the films:

Ole dole doff (1968)
Boon bin yen (1983)
Tuntematon sotilas (1955)


Definitely the weakest round so far.
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