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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 1K: France vs Denmark vs Vietnam; Voting deadline: Mar 8
Topic Started: Feb 17 2015, 01:15:00 AM (3,315 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 1K of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManager
FranceQue la bte meureThis Man Must Die1969Samlion
DenmarkSultHunger1956Gershwin
VietnamBao giờ cho đến thng MườiWhen the Tenth Month Comes1984Melvelet

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Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The winner of the match is the film that beats the other 2 films head-to-head. If A "beats" B, it means that A is ranked higher than B more often than B is ranked higher than A. If there's no winner using this method, it'll be decided by average rank.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 1
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Cocoa
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This is my highest rated group so far :wub: Sult is easily number one for me.

1. Sult
2. Que la bte meure
3. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười
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Mario Gaborović
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The group of death, that is. Everybody should return to vote here.

1. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười 9.5/10
2. Sult 8.5/10
3. Que la bte meure 7.5/10
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joachimt
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Mario Gaborović
Feb 17 2015, 07:26:18 AM
The group of death, that is. Everybody should return to vote here.
Absolutely!! I watched Vietnam and France this week. Rated them 9 and 8. I watched Sult 2.5 years ago, rated it 8, but remember hesitating to raise it. I'll rewatch it today. It's too close to decide from memory. Amazing bunch of movies!! :circle:
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zhangalan
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Mario Gaborović
Feb 17 2015, 07:26:18 AM
The group of death, that is. Everybody should return to vote here.

1. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười 9.5/10
2. Sult 8.5/10
3. Que la bte meure 7.5/10
Seems that this is the only group with all films appearing on the <400 checks list. This makes it the group of death. But for me it will probably be the group with Korea and Brazil as I love both and rate them at least 8.5/10.

I am cold on This Man Must Die despite it being a fine one. I like When the Tenth Month Comes, one of my best discovery during last year's DTC period.Haven't watched the famous Sult.
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perceval
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Sult is perhaps the truly essential film for a Swedish cinephile that I still haven't seen (I forget some Bergman films for now).

And in addition, more Per Oscarsson for this cup. For no particular reason, I investigated what films he acted in outside Scandinavia and found quite a few. For instance...

A Peckinpah TV western
Posted Image

... Anthony Mann's last film
Posted Image

... A Carlos Saura film
Posted Image

... And a lot more.

Dolwphin could easily take another Oscarsson film for Sweden the second round. Dr. Glas (Zetterling), Vaxdockan (Mattsson) and Syskonbdd 1782 (Sjman) are all great films.
Edited by perceval, Feb 17 2015, 11:49:30 AM.
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perceval
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zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 11:02:33 AM
But for me it will probably be the group with Korea and Brazil as I love both and rate them at least 8.5/10.
... Not mentioning Georgia that is represented with the only 10/10 (I assume) in the whole cup.
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joachimt
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Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?

Is it a coincidence that the same actor appears twice in a lead role in this World Cup or did Dolwphin and Gershwin talk to each other about it?
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?

Is it a coincidence that the same actor appears twice in a lead role in this World Cup or did Dolwphin and Gershwin talk to each other about it?
Or what if they are the same person but different accounts :o ?

Okay, let's be serious. I wonder if this is related to culture. Maybe the culture of these countries are more similar than the others. At least from what I know, apart from US films, most films (TV drama as well) HK people watch are those from mainland China,Taiwan, Japan and Korea.
Edited by zhangalan, Feb 17 2015, 12:55:15 PM.
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joachimt
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zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 12:54:44 PM
joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?

Is it a coincidence that the same actor appears twice in a lead role in this World Cup or did Dolwphin and Gershwin talk to each other about it?
Or what if they are the same person but different accounts :o ?
Do people actually create multiple accounts? :o
That's not fair! :angry:
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perceval
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joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?
Carlsen, Oscarsson, Hamsun; before this cup I didn't even know Sult was a Danish film, in my mind it was a Scandinavian film...
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:59:04 PM
zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 12:54:44 PM
joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?

Is it a coincidence that the same actor appears twice in a lead role in this World Cup or did Dolwphin and Gershwin talk to each other about it?
Or what if they are the same person but different accounts :o ?
Do people actually create multiple accounts? :o
That's not fair! :angry:
Of course not.
Everyone knows the one of me being your new account is a joke. B)
And Gershwin and Dolwphin love very different film types. At least we share some favourite films/directors :whistling:
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zhangalan
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Talking about When the Tenth Month Comes, I remember someone mentions there was once a Tokyo Story vs When the Tenth Month Comes match. And just look at these two.
http://www.filmantidote.com/personalcanon/ (this one is actually not very professional)
http://desistfilm.com/desistfilm-top-50/

When the Tenth Month Comes appears twice in each poll. Can it become a new classic in the future (maybe next Sight and Sound poll)?

And I always wonder how different the tastes are between critics and cinephiles. Said, Human Conditions is not very popular among critics but it is is different for cinephiles. And I am sure there are more cases. Maybe Sult and Night Train are another. They are ranked high on RYM but rarely mentioned among critics. Is it because of ease to access or taste difference?
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Mario Gaborović
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Btw I've been to Oslo and I immediately recognized that park at the end of main street (up the hill and just before the royal residence, which can be seen through the trees). That bench Oscarsson is sitting on when two ladies approach him, is located just when you climb up the stairs and walk to the right for about 10m.
I think old fire service building served as a slaughterhouse in the film, but I'm not sure.
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St. Gloede
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Interesting, all great films I gave very similar rating, but This Man Must Die gets an easy lead:

1. Que la bte meure
2. Sult
3. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười
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joachimt
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So Sult was shot in Norway with a Sedish lead actor and a Danish director.
What's the main language, btw? I'm not very good in recognizing the different Scandinavian languages.
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joachimt
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zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 01:17:22 PM
Talking about When the Tenth Month Comes, I remember someone mentions there was once a Tokyo Story vs When the Tenth Month Comes match. And just look at these two.
http://www.filmantidote.com/personalcanon/ (this one is actually not very professional)
http://desistfilm.com/desistfilm-top-50/

When the Tenth Month Comes appears twice in each poll. Can it become a new classic in the future (maybe next Sight and Sound poll)?
Funny that you mention Tokyo Story here. After watching When the Tenth Month Comes two days ago I ranked it one place above Tokyo Story in my favorites list.
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zhangalan
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joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 01:38:56 PM
zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 01:17:22 PM
Talking about When the Tenth Month Comes, I remember someone mentions there was once a Tokyo Story vs When the Tenth Month Comes match. And just look at these two.
http://www.filmantidote.com/personalcanon/ (this one is actually not very professional)
http://desistfilm.com/desistfilm-top-50/

When the Tenth Month Comes appears twice in each poll. Can it become a new classic in the future (maybe next Sight and Sound poll)?
Funny that you mention Tokyo Story here. After watching When the Tenth Month Comes two days ago I ranked it one place above Tokyo Story in my favorites list.
It's someone mentioning it before, not me.

I do remember the first time I heard about the film was one time my friend watched it in the HK international film festival and he recommended it to me, describing it as the Vietnam's The Cranes Are Flying. After watching it last year I understand what he meant. Similar theme, different styles.
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Gershwin
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zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 01:07:19 PM
joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:59:04 PM
zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 12:54:44 PM
joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Why is a Danish movie essential for a Swedish cinephile? More essential than to other cinephiles?
It makes me wonder, are there Belgian movies that are essential especially to Dutch cinephiles?

Is it a coincidence that the same actor appears twice in a lead role in this World Cup or did Dolwphin and Gershwin talk to each other about it?
Or what if they are the same person but different accounts :o ?
Do people actually create multiple accounts? :o
That's not fair! :angry:
Of course not.
Everyone knows the one of me being your new account is a joke. B)
And Gershwin and Dolwphin love very different film types. At least we share some favourite films/directors :whistling:
No, we have quite similar tastes, to a certain extent. Tati, Roy Andersson, Tsai, Resnais, Tarr, Bresson, just to name a few. And look here... :shifty:

It's just that I don't really appreciate most extreme avant-garde films.
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brokenface
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zhangalan
Feb 17 2015, 01:46:55 PM
I do remember the first time I heard about the film was one time my friend watched it in the HK international film festival and he recommended it to me, describing it as the Vietnam's The Cranes Are Flying. After watching it last year I understand what he meant. Similar theme, different styles.
definitely reminded me of it too. I joked to myself it should've been called The Kites are Flying while I watching it, 'cause I'm hilarious like that

1. Hunger
2. This Man Must Die
3. When the Tenth Month Comes

v.strong group, I like all three.
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joachimt
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1. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười (9/10)
2. Sult (9/10)
3. Que la bte meure (8/10)
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Melvelet
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Maybe nominations should focus more on the 500<400 list in general?

1. Bao giờ cho đến thng Mười (8+/10)
2. Sult (8/10)
3. Que la bte meure (8-/10)
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insomnius
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joachimt
Feb 17 2015, 01:32:57 PM
So Sult was shot in Norway with a Sedish lead actor and a Danish director.
What's the main language, btw? I'm not very good in recognizing the different Scandinavian languages.
The leads Per Oscarsson and Gunnel Lindblom speak Swedish.

Anyway...
1. When the Tenth Month Comes
2. This Man Must Die
3. Hunger (the year should be '66, not '56)

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beavis
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1) Svlt (1966) Sult, Hunger 8,5
2) Que la bte meure (1969) The Beast Must Die 7,5
3) Bao Gio Cho den Thang Muoi (1984) When the Tenth Month Comes 7

Sult is truly excellent, a very unsetteling movie, with a manic performance that could be a proto-Captain Jack Sparrow if the whole thing was played out even more for comedy. But there is a balance here that makes it more dark and tragic. I guess this is something Camus and Becket might have liked very much... must investigate the book and writer some more!

The Chabrol is done with great style and a thoroughly entertaining movie, but in the end it lacks something to convince me of the characters and story. You can see where the Hitchcock comparisons are coming from, but it is not entirely of that level; in this picture. Chabrol is also something I need to check out more (and that's why I had put him on my list for this year!)

When the Tenth Month Comes is not quite a Vietnamse 'Cranes', but again I see where the comparisson is coming from. Well shot and interesting, but it is all a bit 'too much' on some points... too much drama, too much music, too much pathos, for a story that can't really support it.

very interesting round, all things I want to check out further!
Edited by beavis, Feb 21 2015, 02:47:29 PM.
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brokenface
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beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
1) Svlt (1966) Sult, Hunger 8,5
2) Que la bte meure (1969) The Beast Must Die 7,5
3) Bao Gio Cho den Thang Muoi (1984) When the Tenth Month Comes 7

Sult is truly excellent, a very unsetteling movie, with a manic performance that could be a proto-Captain Jack Sparrow if the whole thing was played out even more for comedy. But there is a balance here that makes it more dark and tragic. I guess this is something Camus and Becket might have liked very much... must investigate the book and writer some more!

my ratings exactly!

Knut Hamsun's book is definitely worth the read, esp if you like Dostoyevsky, who was a big influence on it. I think the adaptation did very well as it's not easy to convert such an internalised first person narrative into a film.
Edited by brokenface, Feb 21 2015, 02:59:36 PM.
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beavis
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I might bump Sult up to a 9, the movie is really growing on me already
According to all accounts it is indeed an excellent adaptation, and I'm definately going to read that book!
Edited by beavis, Feb 21 2015, 03:09:19 PM.
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Knaldskalle
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beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Sult is truly excellent, a very unsetteling movie, with a manic performance that could be a proto-Captain Jack Sparrow if the whole thing was played out even more for comedy. But there is a balance here that makes it more dark and tragic. I guess this is something Camus and Becket might have liked very much... must investigate the book and writer some more!
I've never read any Hamsun, but I'm told his books are very good (Nobel Prize, 1920). His later life took some very problematic turns and he was briefly charged with treason(!) after World War II for his support of Nazi Germany and Hitler. There are indications that he may not had the full use of his faculties at the time, he was 85 years old when WWII ended.

There's a biopic of him on Netflix, Hamsun, with Max von Sydow (and Ghita Nørby as his wife). It's not great, though, and focuses mostly on this "interesting time" of his life, WWII and later. It's mostly based on a controversial three-volume biography of the Hamsun trial by Thorkild Hansen (apparently not available in English).
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Mario Gaborović
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beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
When the Tenth Month Comes is not quite a Vietnamse 'Cranes', but again I see where the comparisson is coming from. Well shot and interesting, but it is all a bit 'too much' on some points... too much drama, too much music, too much pathos, for a story that can't really support it.
This pathos is credible as the film wants to point out significance of individual loss versus global loss (on the level of society, nation, etc). In all acts of violence taking place we only get numbers and how it affected society on a global scale, but we never think much about destroying one's world - in this case, Duyen's whole private world.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, Feb 21 2015, 04:00:27 PM.
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Mario Gaborović
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Knaldskalle
Feb 21 2015, 03:22:08 PM
beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Sult is truly excellent, a very unsetteling movie, with a manic performance that could be a proto-Captain Jack Sparrow if the whole thing was played out even more for comedy. But there is a balance here that makes it more dark and tragic. I guess this is something Camus and Becket might have liked very much... must investigate the book and writer some more!
I've never read any Hamsun, but I'm told his books are very good (Nobel Prize, 1920). His later life took some very problematic turns and he was briefly charged with treason(!) after World War II for his support of Nazi Germany and Hitler. There are indications that he may not had the full use of his faculties at the time, he was 85 years old when WWII ended.

There's a biopic of him on Netflix, Hamsun, with Max von Sydow (and Ghita Nrby as his wife). It's not great, though, and focuses mostly on this "interesting time" of his life, WWII and later. It's mostly based on a controversial three-volume biography of the Hamsun trial by Thorkild Hansen (apparently not available in English).
Can you tell me was I right about Oslo's locations in this film? Was slaughterhouse in "Sult" actually the firemen's building's backyard in real life?
Just to let you know, there's Yugoslavian TV adaptation of Ibsen's "Wild Ducks" (no subs though).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTMIhEV3hZY

I'm planning to read both writers any time soon.
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zuma
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Knaldskalle
Feb 21 2015, 03:22:08 PM
beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Sult is truly excellent, a very unsetteling movie, with a manic performance that could be a proto-Captain Jack Sparrow if the whole thing was played out even more for comedy. But there is a balance here that makes it more dark and tragic. I guess this is something Camus and Becket might have liked very much... must investigate the book and writer some more!
I've never read any Hamsun, but I'm told his books are very good (Nobel Prize, 1920). His later life took some very problematic turns and he was briefly charged with treason(!) after World War II for his support of Nazi Germany and Hitler. There are indications that he may not had the full use of his faculties at the time, he was 85 years old when WWII ended.

There's a biopic of him on Netflix, Hamsun, with Max von Sydow (and Ghita Nrby as his wife). It's not great, though, and focuses mostly on this "interesting time" of his life, WWII and later. It's mostly based on a controversial three-volume biography of the Hamsun trial by Thorkild Hansen (apparently not available in English).


You really can not go wrong with anything he has written. I have read everything by him I could get my hands on, and there was not a stinker in the bunch.


If I had to toss 90% of the books on my shelves, his novels "Pan" and "Mysteries" would be kept.

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XxXApathy420XxX
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beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
When the Tenth Month Comes is not quite a Vietnamse 'Cranes', but again I see where the comparisson is coming from.

Em b H Ni [The Little Girl of Hanoi] is MUCH closer to a Vietnamese Cranes than When the Tenth Month Comes is.

This round does look interesting. I've only seen When the Tenth Month Comes so far but that's already some tough competition.
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beavis
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ArthurYanthar
Feb 21 2015, 09:20:22 PM
beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
When the Tenth Month Comes is not quite a Vietnamse 'Cranes', but again I see where the comparisson is coming from.

Em b H Ni [The Little Girl of Hanoi] is MUCH closer to a Vietnamese Cranes than When the Tenth Month Comes is.

This round does look interesting. I've only seen When the Tenth Month Comes so far but that's already some tough competition.
I too have seen both these Vietnamese classics recently, but can't agree with you on this point... so we must be thinking about different aspects when comparing the films. I see the comparison for the Tenth Month, but don't see it at all for the Little Girl...
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zhangalan
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beavis
Feb 21 2015, 09:40:35 PM
ArthurYanthar
Feb 21 2015, 09:20:22 PM
beavis
Feb 21 2015, 02:46:59 PM
When the Tenth Month Comes is not quite a Vietnamse 'Cranes', but again I see where the comparisson is coming from.

Em b H Ni [The Little Girl of Hanoi] is MUCH closer to a Vietnamese Cranes than When the Tenth Month Comes is.

This round does look interesting. I've only seen When the Tenth Month Comes so far but that's already some tough competition.
I too have seen both these Vietnamese classics recently, but can't agree with you on this point... so we must be thinking about different aspects when comparing the films. I see the comparison for the Tenth Month, but don't see it at all for the Little Girl...
Ok, I know this is irrelevant, but I just watch Sharunas Bartas's Few of Us, a nominee of DTC. Then I realize beavis's avatar is Yekaterina Golubeva.
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beavis
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It is, a shot from Trys Dienos actually, but instantly recognisable as Bartas
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XxXApathy420XxX
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You have no idea how often I see that photo of Yekaterina. Seems like everyone has it as an avatar at one point. I loved Trys dienos. Might rewatch it one day. Wasn't too big on The Corridor or Few of Us though, but they are both worth watching.
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zuma
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1. Hunger
2. This Man Must Die
3. When the Tenth Month Comes

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jvv
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1. Svlt (1966) Sult, Hunger - 9/10
2. Que la bte meure (1969) The Beast Must Die - 7.5/10
3. Bao Gio Cho den Thang Muoi (1984) When the Tenth Month Comes - 7.0

Svlt - Fantastic performance by Per Oscarsson.
Que la bte meure - I felt the villain was too over the top.
Bao Gio Cho den Thang Muoi - A bit melodramatic, especially the music.

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beavis
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We are ALL thinking exactly the same thing here
Of course ;)
Hope the final outcome will be like this, even if i'm planning on seeing much more from Vietnam this year...
Edited by beavis, Feb 26 2015, 04:06:39 PM.
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Gershwin
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That's how I like my results. :sweat:
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Lonewolf2003
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I hate to be the spoilsport, but I fail to see the brilliance of When the Tenth Month Comes. It shows some potential and the lead actress is very gorgeous, but apart from that it doesn't do anything very well. It never fully realizes any of the interesting story threads. The line delivery is very wooden (I suspect not all Vietnamese speak completely monotonous irl). The music doesn't fit the mood of scene's. Great shots aren't held for long enough.
Lucky enough the others were very decent flicks.

1. Sult (1966): 7.5
2. Que la bte meure (1969): 7.5
3. Bao gio cho den thang muoi (1984): 5.5

Edited by Lonewolf2003, Feb 27 2015, 10:00:17 AM.
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