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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 2A: Russia vs Canada; Voting deadline: June 3
Topic Started: May 19 2015, 05:11:23 AM (2,535 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 2A of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

RUSSIAvCANADA
Neotpravlennoye pismo / Letter Never Sent (1960)vLa bete lumineuse / The Shimmering Beast (1982)
GershwinvSerriform

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 2 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The film with more #1 votes wins. If there's a tie, the match will be extended 3 days.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 2
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funkybusiness
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oh no they're the same movie. or the one's a remake of the other. judging by the screenshots.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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This sucks... I love both, but in the end, I have to go with this ranking.

1. Неотправленное письмо [Letter Never Sent] (1959) 8/10
2. La bęte lumineuse [The Shimmering Beast] (1982) 8/10

Will there just be one match at a time for this round?
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tommy_leazaq
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mjf314
May 19 2015, 05:11:23 AM
The film with more #1 votes wins. If there's a tie, the match will be extended 3 days.
Even then if it's a tie? Country with the better performance from R1 goes through?
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mjf314
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@Arthur: 2 weeks per match with .5-week overlaps (so a match ends every 1.5 weeks). I wanted every match to include 2 weekends, so if you have a busy weekend you won't miss a match.

@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Edited by mjf314, May 19 2015, 06:11:15 AM.
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joachimt
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mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Or we can do golden goal. After the first extension, if it's not decided, the next vote makes the decision.
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Lonewolf2003
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joachimt
May 19 2015, 07:51:19 AM
mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Or we can do golden goal. After the first extension, if it's not decided, the next vote makes the decision.
That's a better idea. Although in practice it probably comes down to that anyhow, cause most people who want to watch the movies will already have seen them after the first extension.
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zhangalan
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mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@Arthur: 2 weeks per match with .5-week overlaps (so a match ends every 1.5 weeks). I wanted every match to include 2 weekends, so if you have a busy weekend you won't miss a match.

@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Wait, don't people agree to go a 10 days per match without overlapping?
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Armoreska
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zhangalan
May 19 2015, 10:32:10 AM
mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@Arthur: 2 weeks per match with .5-week overlaps (so a match ends every 1.5 weeks). I wanted every match to include 2 weekends, so if you have a busy weekend you won't miss a match.

@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Wait, don't people agree to go a 10 days per match without overlapping?
Isn't more time per match better? :ermm:
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Lonewolf2003
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zhangalan
May 19 2015, 10:32:10 AM
mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@Arthur: 2 weeks per match with .5-week overlaps (so a match ends every 1.5 weeks). I wanted every match to include 2 weekends, so if you have a busy weekend you won't miss a match.

@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Wait, don't people agree to go a 10 days per match without overlapping?
Thought so too. But mjf's argument that every match should contain two weekends makes sense also.
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joachimt
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Lonewolf2003
May 19 2015, 11:00:16 AM
zhangalan
May 19 2015, 10:32:10 AM
mjf314
May 19 2015, 06:08:34 AM
@Arthur: 2 weeks per match with .5-week overlaps (so a match ends every 1.5 weeks). I wanted every match to include 2 weekends, so if you have a busy weekend you won't miss a match.

@tommy_leazaq: If it's still a tie, it'll be extended again. If it's a tie 3 times in a row, then the win will be awarded to Hababam.
Wait, don't people agree to go a 10 days per match without overlapping?
Thought so too. But mjf's argument that every match should contain two weekends makes sense also.
This way the pace is the same. The only difference is a few days extra as overlap.
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tommy_leazaq
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By this pace, will we be able to find the inaugural World Cup winner before 2016?
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Lonewolf2003
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tommy_leazaq
May 19 2015, 11:35:32 AM
By this pace, will we be able to find the inaugural World Cup winner before 2016?
If my calculations are correct, assuming we keep the same time span per match and we don't take a break between rounds, we should have a winner in November. Or to be more precise in 25 weeks from now.
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Nopros
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Man these are both really solid movies, was pretty sure that the Russian would be my 1 after watching it, but now I know there's only one thing to do.

1. La bete lumineuse / The Shimmering Beast (1982) 8.5/10
2. Neotpravlennoye pismo / Letter Never Sent (1960) 8/10
Edited by Nopros, May 19 2015, 08:42:21 PM.
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Mario Gaborović
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo / Letter Never Sent (1960) 8.5/10
2. La bete lumineuse / The Shimmering Beast (1982) 7/10
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serri
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is there a discussion thread or can we go apeshit in this one?

i think if i rewatched the letter never sent today the films might be on more even footing, but as it stands the shimmering beast is the better film.

Posted Image
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Mario Gaborović
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serriform
May 20 2015, 10:52:55 AM
is there a discussion thread or can we go apeshit in this one?
I can't see anything mesmerizing besides traditional male ritual filled with adrenaline and alcohol. It was moderately fun to watch their conversations, though.
I find it strange that cinephiles, of which many are well-read intellectuals (MUBI/SFCZ), cherish films where the main protagonists are yokels way beyond their level. Think of The Whole Shootin' Match for that matter, too.
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jvv
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Mario Gaborović
May 20 2015, 11:22:35 AM
I find it strange that cinephiles, of which many are well-read intellectuals (MUBI/SFCZ), cherish films where the main protagonists are yokels way beyond their level. Think of The Whole Shootin' Match for that matter, too.
Maybe those well-read intellectuals don't know any yokels in real life, so it's something new to them. :shrug:
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Mario Gaborović
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jvv
May 20 2015, 11:33:33 AM
Mario Gaborović
May 20 2015, 11:22:35 AM
I find it strange that cinephiles, of which many are well-read intellectuals (MUBI/SFCZ), cherish films where the main protagonists are yokels way beyond their level. Think of The Whole Shootin' Match for that matter, too.
Maybe those well-read intellectuals don't know any yokels in real life, so it's something new to them. :shrug:
Yeah and they fulfill their secret urges through these characters. :shrug:

But then we get to the technical aspect, where these two films are incomparable.

EDIT: To correct myself: Way below their level, not beyond.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, May 20 2015, 11:49:32 AM.
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zhangalan
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1. The Shimmering Beast
2. Letter Never Sent

Not surprising result from a fan of Cassavetes, huh?
Still the conversation goes way too long even if it captures some real emotions. I expect some hunting scenes but all I get is post-mortem/food treatment.
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Mario Gaborović
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zhangalan
May 20 2015, 11:48:20 AM
Still the conversation goes way too long even if it captures some real emotions. I expect some hunting scenes but all I get is post-mortem/food treatment.
They're like civilized versions of Wake in Fright yokels, (maybe) less violent and more eloquent.
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zhangalan
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Mario Gaborović
May 20 2015, 11:50:48 AM
zhangalan
May 20 2015, 11:48:20 AM
Still the conversation goes way too long even if it captures some real emotions. I expect some hunting scenes but all I get is post-mortem/food treatment.
They're like civilized versions of Wake in Fright yokels, (maybe) less violent and more eloquent.
btw, Mario, which types of documentaries do you like?
I see you give praise to Repatriation (8/10) and it seems that you're less interested in The Shimmering Beast (7/10).
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Mario Gaborović
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zhangalan
May 20 2015, 12:02:03 PM
Mario Gaborović
May 20 2015, 11:50:48 AM
zhangalan
May 20 2015, 11:48:20 AM
Still the conversation goes way too long even if it captures some real emotions. I expect some hunting scenes but all I get is post-mortem/food treatment.
They're like civilized versions of Wake in Fright yokels, (maybe) less violent and more eloquent.
btw, Mario, which types of documentaries do you like?
I see you give praise to Repatriation (8/10) and it seems that you're less interested in The Shimmering Beast (7/10).
Repatriation offers different points of view. The whole truth about NK is never gonna revealed, but I am intrigued 'cause there's no black/white views regarding any of the two sides. I can identify with North Koreans because Serbia's own dispute with Kosovo, where foreign audience gets US-dictated prop about who the bad guys & good guys are.

I like docs about interesting subjects, sports/music mostly, but also anti-globalist ones, like those that Pilger makes.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, May 20 2015, 12:46:34 PM.
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serri
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Mario Gaborović
May 20 2015, 11:22:35 AM
serriform
May 20 2015, 10:52:55 AM
is there a discussion thread or can we go apeshit in this one?
I can't see anything mesmerizing besides traditional male ritual filled with adrenaline and alcohol. It was moderately fun to watch their conversations, though.
I find it strange that cinephiles, of which many are well-read intellectuals (MUBI/SFCZ), cherish films where the main protagonists are yokels way beyond their level. Think of The Whole Shootin' Match for that matter, too.
this is one of deleuze's favorite films as well. however the well-read intellectual in this case did not have much of interest to say. i liked this bit tho: "Story-telling is [...] a speech-act through which the character continually crosses the boundary which would separate his private business from politics, and which itself produces collective utterances."

i guess your view of film is oriented towards aboutness? whatever. orchestration, fictionalization, i'm sure you've heard it before.

my preferred aspects in the film are the way in which bernard desires not to end power dynamics but to achieve a form of equality that comes from shifting power relations allowing everyone to benefit from the masochistic joy of humiliation and the sadistic joy of abuse, that scene where they gut a rabbit and stéphane pukes, and the love poem.
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jvv
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo / Letter Never Sent (1960) 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse / The Shimmering Beast (1982) 7.5/10

Letter Never Sent - Great cinematography and atmosphere. I liked the characters too.
Spoiler: click to toggle

The Shimmering Beast - Interesting personal dynamics between a group of guys who go hunting together.
Edited by jvv, May 20 2015, 01:48:27 PM.
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Lonewolf2003
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo / Letter Never Sent (1960):8,5
2. La bete lumineuse / The Shimmering Beast (1982): 7,8

Let's hope all films this round are this good.
Edited by Lonewolf2003, May 20 2015, 10:47:58 PM.
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HVM
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 7/10
2. La Bęte lumineuse 6/10
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klaus78
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo (Russia) 8/10
2. La bęte lumineuse (Canada) 7/10
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Lilarcor
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Neotpravlennoye pismo
Superb.

La bęte lumineuse
This is very close to a favorite for me because it does so many things so well. Throughout most of it it is a pretty funny movie (the moose-calling contest is laugh out funny) and the archers scene with the three waiting for the moose is filled with tension. So are many of the scenes when things start going sour between several of them (Albert feeling Bernard has betrayed him for example). It's so interesting to see how that gradually develops and how just a few bad jokes too far starts pushing someone over the edge. The male bonding dynamic, picked up through the camera that is always there, is something that is very true to life. Perhaps me and my friends are sort of like yokels ourselves when we're out on similar trips such as the ones depicted here, but I could relate to this so much. The raging drunkenness, the stupid humor, missing women (or really, just other people) after spending too many days together with just guys out in nowhere. Things going sour. I don't think this docu tells you anything revelatory about this, and it doesn't need to, but it is refreshing as a form of reflection to look at this as one of those things that male friendships are all / can be about.

1. Neotpravlennoye pismo
2. La bęte lumineuse
Edited by Lilarcor, May 22 2015, 01:57:00 PM.
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mightysparks
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo (1960)
2. La bete lumineuse (1982)
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joachimt
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mightysparks
May 23 2015, 04:37:54 AM
1. Neotpravlennoye pismo (1960) 6/10
The lowest rating for this movie in this thread, but still the highest rating you gave for any WC-movie so far. Glad you loved it! ^_^
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Apparently The Shimmering Beast was filmed in Maniwaki, Quebec. That's less than 2 hours away from me. It's weird though, Quebec might as well be another country.
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joachimt
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse 6/10
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kingink
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1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse 6/10

Were they really speaking French in La bete lumineuse? I couldn't understand a single word! I have the same problem with all French speaking Canadian films though.
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HVM
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At one point I was convinced they spoke Romanian. :D
Edited by HVM, May 23 2015, 12:01:24 PM.
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Lonewolf2003
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kingink
May 23 2015, 08:47:15 AM
1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse 6/10

Were they really speaking French in La bete lumineuse? I couldn't understand a single word! I have the same problem with all French speaking Canadian films though.
I think they speak Quebec French. Which is a variant/dialect of French that uses some old words regular French doesn't use anymore. Or something like that. Arthur might know more about this
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zuma
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ArthurYanthar
May 23 2015, 07:03:28 AM
Apparently The Shimmering Beast was filmed in Maniwaki, Quebec. That's less than 2 hours away from me. It's weird though, Quebec might as well be another country.

Even closer to home, the 'poet' in the film teaches at the university in Gatineau. I could leave my office and walk over there to see him during my lunch break. :)


01. Neotpravlennoye pismo
02. La bete lumineuse

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zhangalan
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zuma
May 23 2015, 01:28:21 PM
ArthurYanthar
May 23 2015, 07:03:28 AM
Apparently The Shimmering Beast was filmed in Maniwaki, Quebec. That's less than 2 hours away from me. It's weird though, Quebec might as well be another country.

Even closer to home, the 'poet' in the film teaches at the university in Gatineau. I could leave my office and walk over there to see him during my lunch break. :)


01. Neotpravlennoye pismo
02. La bete lumineuse

Then maybe you can even invite him to vote here :lol:
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joachimt
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joachimt
May 23 2015, 07:22:32 AM
1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse 6/10


kingink
May 23 2015, 08:47:15 AM
1. Neotpravlennoye pismo 9/10
2. La bete lumineuse 6/10


Don't be too obvious, Greek me!! :whistling:
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kingink
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There is no need to hide at this point...
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