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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 2C: Brazil vs Mexico; Voting deadline: June 24
Topic Started: Jun 11 2015, 04:01:52 PM (3,345 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 2C of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

BRAZILvMEXICO
O Assalto ao Trem Pagador / Assault on the Pay Train (1962)vEl infierno / El Narco (2010)
ArthurYantharvmonty

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Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 2 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The film with more #1 votes wins. If there's a tie, the match will be extended 3 days.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 2
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Assalto ao Trem Pagador has such an awesome poster

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Mario Gaborović
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1. El infierno 8/10
2. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador 5.5/10

I was fooled by the posters of these two, since Mexican choice looked like a worst decision Monty could made. It was just the opposite, though.
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mightysparks
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1. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador
2. El Infierno
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zuma
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 11 2015, 04:04:01 PM
Assalto ao Trem Pagador has such an awesome poster

You missed your calling. The way you promote stuff (500<400, Horror, DTC, World Cup) you should have been in marketing. ;)

I have both ready to go.... Maybe watch them this weekend.

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XxXApathy420XxX
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1. Assalto ao Trem Pagador [Train Robbery Confidential] (1962) 9/10
2. El infierno [Hell] (2010) 6/10 entertaining but way too long

How the hell did El infierno get an NC-17 rating? It's so tame compared to most R rated stuff from the U.S.
Edited by XxXApathy420XxX, Jun 11 2015, 06:51:18 PM.
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monty
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 11 2015, 06:44:34 PM
How the hell did El infierno get an NC-17 rating? It's so tame compared to most R rated stuff from the U.S.
Well, torture scenes are quite gory and there is a lot of imagery involving lopped body parts and human carcasses dumped in the streets. I guess one's rather blasé about such stuff in your neck of the woods.

As for the film being entertaining, yes, it is that too, but it's first and foremost a pitch dark and cynical social critique of contemporary Mexico, showing how Mexican society has devolved into a dog-eat-dog world in which even the strongest and most corrupt cannot survive, a world in which human life is worth zilch, a world where corruption and violence are the common currency, a world in which gangsters and politicians work hand in hand if they're not one and the same - in sum, a world with little hope of a better future.

Also:

El Narco smartly avoids glorifying any aspects of the gang lifestyle (even as a gangster, Bennie [the film's protagonist] continues to condemn that way of life). Estrada also shies away from making any of the characters too cartoonish because keeping El Narco grounded in reality at all times is what helps keep his messages in tact. Estrada holds no punches and never hesitates to place blame where it is deserved — including several jabs at the United States for their role in making Mexico what it has become today. Mexico is hell (as the title suggests) and it is everyone’s fault.
- D. Simpson
Edited by monty, Jun 11 2015, 09:50:04 PM.
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Mario Gaborović
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monty
Jun 11 2015, 09:31:08 PM
ArthurYanthar
Jun 11 2015, 06:44:34 PM
How the hell did El infierno get an NC-17 rating? It's so tame compared to most R rated stuff from the U.S.
Well, torture scenes are quite gory and there is a lot of imagery involving lopped body parts and human carcasses dumped in the streets. I guess one's rather blasé about such stuff in your neck of the woods.
I liked how all the goriness blends with cheerful mariachi songs and humor. That's what bought me ;) It's not the people that are judged - being them criminals or not - but those who made up all that mess for own benefit.
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monty
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@Mario: How did El Cochiloco grab you? Quite the memorable villain, no?
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Well it is a violent film, but I find it strange that this gets the NC-17 rating (so pretty much no theatre distribution in the U.S.) yet all those torture porn films get away with an R rating. The sex wasn't very explicit either. I wonder what the Canadian rating is.

Anyways this was still a nice surprise. Like Mario I thought this was gonna be shit cause of the poster, but I liked it.
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Mario Gaborović
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monty
Jun 11 2015, 09:51:16 PM
@Mario: How did El Cochiloco grab you? Quite the memorable villain, no?
El Cochiloco is a kind person forced to crime because of the circumstances. Anyone can see he has a heart of gold! :cheers:
I love his screen presence as it seems he's perfect for comedies. I don't know what's the reason, his nickname or whatever, but the film wouldn't be same without his aura. :cowboy:
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monty
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 11 2015, 09:51:41 PM
Anyways this was still a nice surprise. Like Mario I thought this was gonna be shit cause of the poster, but I liked it.
Hehe, I agree the poster may not be the best but that's gonna change as soon as it gets its well-deserved Criterion release.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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If Criterion didn't even release any of Ripstein's films then I have a feeling that they won't care for this either. Looks like outside of Bunuel Mexican cinema is dead for them.
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zhangalan
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 11 2015, 10:06:16 PM
If Criterion didn't even release any of Ripstein's films then I have a feeling that they won't care for this either. Looks like outside of Bunuel Mexican cinema is dead for them.
Criterion is too focusing on English language films today.

Do they release any Hou Hsiao-Hsien before? If not I am waiting.
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monty
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1. El infierno - 9.5/10
2. Assalto ao Trem Pagador 6.5/10

Interesting pick, Art, especially given that my candidate also is about societal critique. Many things to enjoy here though the sickbed melodrama at the end was a bit too much. The sheer stupidity and ineptness of the robbers were annoying as hell as well. I did, however, like how the film made its point about the gross injustices of Brazilian society; the house ransacking as well as the freeze frame at the end were particularly poignant in this respect. No new favorite then but I'm still glad to have seen this one.

Ultimately, Tião Medonho is no match for El cochiloco so México gets the number one spot.
Edited by monty, Jun 13 2015, 08:31:27 PM.
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joachimt
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1. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador 8/10
2. El Infierno 7/10
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Mario Gaborović
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monty
Jun 13 2015, 01:00:07 AM
Ultimately, Tião Medonho is no match for El cochiloco so México gets the number one spot.
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Melvelet
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I watched O Assalto ao Trem Pagador yesterday and it probably won't be easy for El Infierno.
Liked this noir (more or less) a lot, a lot of great images and the group has some memorable characters (some others less so, though).

8+ (and a decent spot in my Hidden Gems list)
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zhangalan
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1. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador
2. El infierno

Latin America is doing pretty well in the game. 3 out of 5 advance to Round 2, and now we're sure at least one of them can advance to Round 3.

(On the other hand, Asia is the biggest disappointment of the Cup :'( )
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monty
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Anyone who fails to vote for México will be kidnapped and tortured by the Mexican mafia.
Edited by monty, Jun 14 2015, 12:18:15 PM.
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zhangalan
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monty
Jun 14 2015, 12:17:54 PM
Anyone who fails to vote for México will be kidnapped and tortured by the Mexican mafia.
Don't worry, Chow Yun-fat is going to save me from Mexican mafia. If that's not enough, I still get Jackie Chan. :lol:
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monty
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zhangalan
Jun 14 2015, 01:37:54 PM
monty
Jun 14 2015, 12:17:54 PM
Anyone who fails to vote for México will be kidnapped and tortured by the Mexican mafia.
Don't worry, Chow Yun-fat is going to save me from Mexican mafia. If that's not enough, I still get Jackie Chan. :lol:
They'll both be screaming with pain when the number one hitman of the Mexican mafia puts his favorite shiny implement up their behinds:

Posted Image

Then he's coming for you...
Edited by monty, Jun 14 2015, 03:11:16 PM.
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klaus78
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1. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador (Brazil) 7/10
2. El infierno (Mexico) 7/10
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XxXApathy420XxX
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monty
Jun 14 2015, 01:46:15 PM
zhangalan
Jun 14 2015, 01:37:54 PM
monty
Jun 14 2015, 12:17:54 PM
Anyone who fails to vote for México will be kidnapped and tortured by the Mexican mafia.
Don't worry, Chow Yun-fat is going to save me from Mexican mafia. If that's not enough, I still get Jackie Chan. :lol:
They'll both be screaming with pain when the number one hitman of the Mexican mafia puts his favorite shiny implement up their behinds:

Posted Image

Then he's coming for you...
What about this hitman?

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monty
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klaus78
Jun 14 2015, 03:21:33 PM
1. El infierno (Mexico) 7/10
2. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador (Brazil) 7/10
Sorry to see you got the order wrong. FTFY


@Art: You've bulked up since your last pic but I'm afraid you still won't be able to make the cut for the Mexican mafia's elite hit squad. Also, get a better hood - pink underwear is always a safe choice.
Edited by monty, Jun 14 2015, 04:04:05 PM.
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Cocoa
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1. Assalto ao Trem Pagador
2. El infierno


One film was engaging and kept me entertained. A film in the second round that I actually like without having any doubt :wub: I yawned while watching the other film.
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zhangalan
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Mexican mafia is busy kidnapping people. Then they realize there are too many, so they give up.
Edited by zhangalan, Jun 15 2015, 11:19:25 AM.
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perceval
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Once again I watched one of those "horrible-things-happening-in-at-least-2-hours-runtime-and-it-supposed-be-entertaining-but-I-only-feel-terrible" films. Never again, but I have been saying that before.

1. Assalto ao Trem Pagador
2. El infierno
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Armoreska
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5 or 6 votes for Brazil in a row
Methinks you should have went with that revolutionary movie instead, Monty.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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perceval
Jun 16 2015, 09:18:15 AM
Once again I watched one of those "horrible-things-happening-in-at-least-2-hours-runtime-and-it-supposed-be-entertaining-but-I-only-feel-terrible" films. Never again, but I have been saying that before.

1. Assalto ao Trem Pagador
2. El infierno
I almost laughed when I saw you disliked infierno.

Maybe you should have went with Ripstein monty :P
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monty
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 16 2015, 03:29:19 PM
Maybe you should have went with Ripstein monty :P
Just perceval outright hated it, the rest of those placing it second seems to have enjoyed it. Still early days - moooooore votes, please.

Saving Ripstein for Round 3.
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Lonewolf2003
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1. El infierno (2010): 7.8 - funny dark comedy with some good social commentary
2. O Assalto ao Trem Pagador (1962): 7.2 - brave intersting choice to focus the movie completly on the aftermath of a big robbery instead of the preperation and theft itself, like in most movies. It shows welll the social situation of the criminals as well as the concealed racism in Brasilian society. Only some of the other characters beside the main guy aren't well developed enough and given the proper attention.
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Jun 18 2015, 11:13:29 PM.
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Lonewolf2003
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Mario Gaborović
Jun 11 2015, 10:01:04 PM
monty
Jun 11 2015, 09:51:16 PM
@Mario: How did El Cochiloco grab you? Quite the memorable villain, no?
El Cochiloco is a kind person forced to crime because of the circumstances. Anyone can see he has a heart of gold! :cheers:
I love his screen presence as it seems he's perfect for comedies. I don't know what's the reason, his nickname or whatever, but the film wouldn't be same without his aura. :cowboy:
Spoiler: click to toggle
was one of my favorite the movie. Till that point he was kind of a caricature of guy just in it for the money, booze and boobs.
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Jun 18 2015, 11:21:01 PM.
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monty
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Glad you liked it, lonewolf. Not sure I'd call it a comedy though.

To repeat myself: As for the film being entertaining, yes, it is that too, but it's first and foremost a pitch dark and cynical social critique of contemporary Mexico, showing how Mexican society has devolved into a dog-eat-dog world in which even the strongest and most corrupt cannot survive, a world in which human life is worth zilch, a world where corruption and violence are the common currency, a world in which gangsters and politicians work hand in hand if they're not one and the same - in sum, a world with little hope of a better future.

Also:

El Narco smartly avoids glorifying any aspects of the gang lifestyle (even as a gangster, Bennie [the film's protagonist] continues to condemn that way of life). Estrada also shies away from making any of the characters too cartoonish because keeping El Narco grounded in reality at all times is what helps keep his messages in tact. Estrada holds no punches and never hesitates to place blame where it is deserved — including several jabs at the United States for their role in making Mexico what it has become today. Mexico is hell (as the title suggests) and it is everyone’s fault.
- D. Simpson
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Geez monty first Late Marriage now this... you don't call anything comedies :P
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monty
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ArthurYanthar
Jun 19 2015, 12:07:30 AM
Geez monty first Late Marriage now this... you don't call anything comedies :P
Damn you, I'd almost managed to erase that abomination of a film from my mind. You brought all the pain back - thanks. :P
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zuma
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01. Assalto ao Trem Pagador
02. El infierno


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Angel Glez
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So we're finally moving on to next match. :lol:

1. Assault on the Pay Train
2. El Narco

Assault is an excellent film, a continuation in style and themes of his previous Threatened City. Farias' third remarkable work is Selva Trágica, but that's another story.
I quite like the black humour in El Narco, but the film is less successful than Herod's Law, Estrada's best. It wallows in excess and offers no new insights.
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Lonewolf2003
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monty
Jun 19 2015, 12:06:39 AM
Glad you liked it, lonewolf. Not sure I'd call it a comedy though.

To repeat myself: As for the film being entertaining, yes, it is that too, but it's first and foremost a pitch dark and cynical social critique of contemporary Mexico, showing how Mexican society has devolved into a dog-eat-dog world in which even the strongest and most corrupt cannot survive, a world in which human life is worth zilch, a world where corruption and violence are the common currency, a world in which gangsters and politicians work hand in hand if they're not one and the same - in sum, a world with little hope of a better future.

Also:

El Narco smartly avoids glorifying any aspects of the gang lifestyle (even as a gangster, Bennie [the film's protagonist] continues to condemn that way of life). Estrada also shies away from making any of the characters too cartoonish because keeping El Narco grounded in reality at all times is what helps keep his messages in tact. Estrada holds no punches and never hesitates to place blame where it is deserved — including several jabs at the United States for their role in making Mexico what it has become today. Mexico is hell (as the title suggests) and it is everyone’s fault.
- D. Simpson
Yes, it is a cynical social critique about Mexico and also a commentary on movie and real violence (one of the reasons I liked the scene I described before so much). But it does so via dark humour mostly. At least to me the whole movie had an "Life and society is so dark and miserable, there is nothing else to do than to laugh about the absurdity of it all, otherwise we get so depressed we have to shot ourselves'-attitude. That's why I called it a comedy. For lack of a better word. You also could call it a satire, although it isn't that completely also
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Mario Gaborović
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Assalto ao Trem Pagador - El infierno 9:3
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