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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 2E: Austria vs China; Voting deadline: July 15
Topic Started: Jul 2 2015, 01:30:33 AM (2,953 Views)
mjf314
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This is match 2E of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

AUSTRIAvCHINA
Sonnenstrahl / Ray of Sunshine (1933)vBei kao bei, lian dui lian / Back to Back, Face to Face (1994)
funkybusinessvzhangalan

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 2 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The film with more #1 votes wins. If there's a tie, the match will be extended 3 days.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

iCM list for round 2
Edited by mjf314, Jul 2 2015, 03:17:31 AM.
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Mario Gaborović
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1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
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funkybusiness
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This...is a cactus.
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Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 01:46:52 AM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
well, there ya have it. might as well shut voting down now. :whistling:
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Mario Gaborović
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funkybusiness
Jul 2 2015, 02:07:41 AM
Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 01:46:52 AM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
well, there ya have it. might as well shut voting down now. :whistling:
Now you should take a revenge on me by voting for Muerte de un ciclista. :whistling:

I didn't like the film.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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This is EASY

1. Sonnenstrahl [Ray of Sunshine] (1933) 9/10
2. 背靠背,脸对脸 [Back To Back, Face To Face] (1994) 6/10

Sonnenstrahl is by the same director who made the masterpiece Lonesome. That already tells you how amazing it is.
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funkybusiness
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This...is a cactus.
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Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 02:14:56 AM
funkybusiness
Jul 2 2015, 02:07:41 AM
Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 01:46:52 AM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
well, there ya have it. might as well shut voting down now. :whistling:
Now you should take a revenge on me by voting for Muerte de un ciclista. :whistling:

I didn't like the film.
you didn't like which? I know I helped with the subtitles for Back to Back, but I'm managing Austria... :wacko: I'm going to rewatch Sonnenstrahl but my vote will probably be the same as yours.
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Mario Gaborović
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funkybusiness
Jul 2 2015, 02:24:38 AM
Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 02:14:56 AM
funkybusiness
Jul 2 2015, 02:07:41 AM
Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 01:46:52 AM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
well, there ya have it. might as well shut voting down now. :whistling:
Now you should take a revenge on me by voting for Muerte de un ciclista. :whistling:

I didn't like the film.
you didn't like which? I know I helped with the subtitles for Back to Back, but I'm managing Austria... :wacko: I'm going to rewatch Sonnenstrahl but my vote will probably be the same as yours.
Didn't like the Chinese one... Sonnenstrahl was good but it totally lost its compass halfway through. However it was kinda optimistic and charming in the fashion of Maskerade, though it's not even close as good.

Too bad for China; with different film it may had a chance against a film that is just ok.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Out of curiousity zhangalan did you ever watch Youchai?
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tommy_leazaq
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Did Zhangalan proof read funky's subs? tehe
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Mario Gaborović
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tommy_leazaq
Jul 2 2015, 03:21:35 AM
Did Zhangalan proof read funky's subs? tehe
That wouldn't save the film, I think. But we've got chance to see it and that's something he should be satisfied with, regardless of the result.
Each WC entry gets at least 20 new checks - and maybe more if it's any good.
Edited by Mario Gaborović, Jul 2 2015, 03:38:36 AM.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Mario Gaborović
Jul 2 2015, 03:37:57 AM
tommy_leazaq
Jul 2 2015, 03:21:35 AM
Did Zhangalan proof read funky's subs? tehe
That wouldn't save the film, I think. But we've got chance to see it and that's something he should be satisfied with, regardless of the result.
Each WC entry gets at least 20 new checks - and maybe more if it's any good.
I think that tommy was referring to this:

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zhangalan
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ArthurYanthar
Jul 2 2015, 02:34:19 AM
Out of curiousity zhangalan did you ever watch Youchai?
No. I'll check it.
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zhangalan
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Ah, looks like we have a hateful nomination in Round 2 now, and everyone is gonna 'Argo' me.

I'm curious to know why people hate it. Is it because of my sub(well, I'm the one who makes the 'Argo' line), or would it be another The Unknown Soldier? I mean the film is highly praised among Chinese cinephiles and it has a rating of 8.9 on Douban. I enjoy it too.

Well, maybe I should pick Chen Kaige's King of Children next time. At least not many of you have watched it, and Yellow Earth and Farewell My Concubine have some supporters on this forum.

Spoiler: click to toggle


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Lonewolf2003
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zhangalan
Jul 2 2015, 11:47:26 AM
Ah, looks like we have a hateful nomination in Round 2 now, and everyone is gonna 'Argo' me.

I'm curious to know why people hate it. Is it because of my sub(well, I'm the one who makes the 'Argo' line), or would it be another The Unknown Soldier? I mean the film is highly praised among Chinese cinephiles and it has a rating of 8.9 on Douban. I enjoy it too.

Well, maybe I should pick Chen Kaige's King of Children next time. At least not many of you have watched it, and Yellow Earth and Farewell My Concubine have some supporters on this forum.

Spoiler: click to toggle


There's only been two votes yet, don't jump to conclusions to fast.
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joachimt
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zhangalan
Jul 2 2015, 11:47:26 AM
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zhangalan
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After monty's reply I believe it's due to my poor sub.
Now I should rename it Bad Too Bad, Facepalm
:facepalm:
Edited by zhangalan, Jul 3 2015, 01:11:23 PM.
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monty
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zhangalan
Jul 3 2015, 01:10:51 PM
After monty's reply I believe it's due to my poor sub.
Now I should rename it Bad Too Bad, Facepalm
:facepalm:
No worries. The rest of the subs are fine indeed. Tx a million for the Herculean effort of taking on this project and bringing us this fine film.
Edited by monty, Jul 3 2015, 01:24:54 PM.
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Lonewolf2003
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zhangalan
Jul 3 2015, 01:10:51 PM
After monty's reply I believe it's due to my poor sub.
Now I should rename it Bad Too Bad, Facepalm
:facepalm:


monty
Jul 3 2015, 01:24:24 PM
zhangalan
Jul 3 2015, 01:10:51 PM
After monty's reply I believe it's due to my poor sub.
Now I should rename it Bad Too Bad, Facepalm
:facepalm:
No worries. The rest of the subs are fine indeed. Tx a million for the Herculean effort of taking on this project and bringing us this fine film.


See no facepalm necesarry
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zhangalan
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Alright, I finish Ray of Sunshine. Interesting film indeed. It is a sound film but its style is closer to silent, more relying on the use of editing, body language and acting to tell the story instead of talking, and this is done beautifully. I am not a fan of the story though. I agree with Mario, the film starts beautifully, but halfway through it I start getting bored, especially those scenes in which the couple imagining they are on honeymoon trip in different countries.

As for Back to Back, Face to Face, I tend to keep silent on the film I nominate since I want to know how others feel on it without my influence. Briefly I will say it is visually dull. For your interest, Huang Jianxin goes for a realism style in this film, while his earlier work Black Canon Incident has some interesting symbolic/experimental shots. I prefer the story and characters of Back to Back, Face to Face though.

1. Back to Back, Face to Face
2. Ray of Sunshine
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monty
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Sad to say, but the Austrian entry didn't live up to the hype around these parts. As I didn't fall under the spell of the couple's antics, the film utterly failed to engage. It didn't help matters that 1) the story was thoroughly predictable and 2) the acting was too theatrical for my taste. I must add that the blackface fairground attraction felt rather ominous considering when and where this was made, and made me wonder if such fairgrounds also had similar Juden "attractions".

Moving on to the Chinese entry, things improved immesurably. Though running close to two and a half hours, I was glued to the screen throughout by what turned out to be a perfectly delivered black comedy/biting satire. The Machiavellian machinations of our lowly protagonist was an utter joy to behold in all their petty glory - hell hath indeed no fury like a civil servant spurned. And let's not forget the excellent ensemble perfs - I particularly liked the slimy accountant and the sly grandfather. All in all, a minor gem.


This was an easy choice indeed!

1. Back to Back, Face to Face
2. Ray of Sunshine


Btw, high time to get this match on the front page, right?
Edited by monty, Jul 3 2015, 10:43:50 PM.
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zhangalan
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monty
Jul 3 2015, 09:57:30 PM
Sad to say, but the Austrian entry didn't live up to the hype around these parts. As I didn't fall under the spell of the couple's antics, the film utterly failed to engage. It didn't help matters that 1) the story was thoroughly predictable and 2) the acting was too theatrical for my taste. I must add that the blackface fairground attraction felt rather ominous considering when and where this was made, and made me wonder if such fairgrounds also had similar Juden "attractions".

Moving on to the Chinese entry, things improved immesurably. Though running close to two and a half hours, I was glued to the screen throughout by what turned out to be a perfectly delivered black comedy/biting satire. The Machiavellian machinations of our lowly protagonist was an utter joy to behold in all their petty glory - hell hath indeed no fury like a civil servant spurned. And let's not forget the excellent ensemble perfs - I particularly liked the slimy accountant and the sly grandfather. All in all, a minor gem.


This was an easy choice indeed!

1. Back to Back, Face to Face
2. Ray of Sunshine


Btw, high time to get this match on the front page, right?
From the time I watched La Nana I know monty is gonna love Back to Back, Face to Face.
I guess you're the type who considers the charm of characters over visuals, and that's what I like of Back to Back, Face to Face.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by zhangalan, Jul 4 2015, 12:33:25 AM.
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monty
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But then again is Wang
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And yes, zhangalan, I do love me a good story well told. Nice visuals are great but story is king.
Edited by monty, Jul 4 2015, 02:25:05 AM.
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zhangalan
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monty
Jul 4 2015, 02:22:47 AM
But then again is Wang
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One can't tell. The director/screenwriter refuse to give their stance after all.
Spoiler: click to toggle


btw, I wonder if people have figured out the hidden plot in the film. I don't know if there is really one but a cinephile on Douban writes an analysis on the film and mentions it.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by zhangalan, Jul 4 2015, 03:52:10 AM.
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joachimt
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monty
Jul 3 2015, 09:57:30 PM
Btw, high time to get this match on the front page, right?
Done
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Lonewolf2003
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A fine match.

1. Back to Back, Face to Face: 8.0
2. Sonnenstrahl: 7.5
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joachimt
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1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
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monty
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joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:14:14 PM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
Did you watch the Chinese film with the latest revision subs? Also, how did you like the film?
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joachimt
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monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:18:42 PM
joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:14:14 PM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
Did you watch the Chinese film with the latest revision subs? Also, how did you like the film?
In the latest revision only a few lines were changed, right? I watched it with the "argo fuck yourself" version.

I didn't like the story enough to beat the charms and visuals of Sonnenstrahl. I also thought is was too long.
Edited by joachimt, Jul 5 2015, 08:26:41 PM.
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monty
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joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:26:26 PM
monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:18:42 PM
joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:14:14 PM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
Did you watch the Chinese film with the latest revision subs? Also, how did you like the film?
In the latest revision only a few lines were changed, right? I watched it with the "argo fuck yourself" version.

I didn't like the story enough to beat the charms and visuals of Sonnenstrahl. I also thought is was too long.
No, a helluva lot more than just a few lines were changed. Pity you didn't get the latest version. Anyhow, I found the so-called charms of Sonnenstrahl to be superficial at best - also too bad that a more downbeat and realistic ending was not chosen.

It seems a risky business nominating long films in this cup. Maybe it could be down to the flagging attention span of today's young...
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joachimt
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monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:35:15 PM
No, a helluva lot more than just a few lines were changed. Pity you didn't get the latest version.
No, a pity the latest revision wasn't available when the match started. The version after funky's proofread was available then and I started watching it then. When the latest version became available I was already halfway. If the last changes are that important, they should have done their work earlier.
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brokenface
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monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:35:15 PM
joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:26:26 PM
monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:18:42 PM
joachimt
Jul 5 2015, 08:14:14 PM
1. Sonnenstrahl
2. Bei kao bei, lian dui lian
Did you watch the Chinese film with the latest revision subs? Also, how did you like the film?
In the latest revision only a few lines were changed, right? I watched it with the "argo fuck yourself" version.

I didn't like the story enough to beat the charms and visuals of Sonnenstrahl. I also thought is was too long.
No, a helluva lot more than just a few lines were changed. Pity you didn't get the latest version. Anyhow, I found the so-called charms of Sonnenstrahl to be superficial at best - also too bad that a more downbeat and realistic ending was not chosen.

It seems a risky business nominating long films in this cup. Maybe it could be down to the flagging attention span of today's young...
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Lonewolf2003
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joachimt
Jul 6 2015, 08:14:21 AM
monty
Jul 5 2015, 08:35:15 PM
No, a helluva lot more than just a few lines were changed. Pity you didn't get the latest version.
No, a pity the latest revision wasn't available when the match started. The version after funky's proofread was available then and I started watching it then. When the latest version became available I was already halfway. If the last changes are that important, they should have done their work earlier.
This. And btw I can't see how the overall plot somehow changed by those changes. Maybe some details in the dialogue/spelling. But that wouldn't change my opinion about the movie much.
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Angel Glez
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1. Ray of Sunshine
2. Back to Back, Face to Face

Please accept my apologies, Alan. You and funky have done a very good job and the film was worth the risk. But Fejös is just the greatest* Hungarian filmmaker and Ray of Sunshine a sublime film, the best in round 2.

*At least until Song of the Cornfields get subbed, to properly compare Fejös and Szöts.

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monty
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Nobody else who reacted to the whack-a-nigger amusement park attraction? Not very amusing or charming today, I dare say.
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bjornam
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Yes, everyone is probably a racist. With a short attention span.
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zhangalan
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Angel Glez
Jul 7 2015, 09:21:48 AM
1. Ray of Sunshine
2. Back to Back, Face to Face

Please accept my apologies, Alan. You and funky have done a very good job and the film was worth the risk. But Fejös is just the greatest* Hungarian filmmaker and Ray of Sunshine a sublime film, the best in round 2.

*At least until Song of the Cornfields get subbed, to properly compare Fejös and Szöts.

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Don't worry, Angel. ;)

I expect this as Ray of Sunshine was your previous DTC nomination and it is on your Youtube channel as well.
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Lonewolf2003
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monty
Jul 7 2015, 10:20:53 AM
Nobody else who reacted to the whack-a-nigger amusement park attraction? Not very amusing or charming today, I dare say.
Yeah, I was shocked initially but realized that it wasn't used in a racist way I feel or to make any political argument of any kind. Ofcourse you could say that using a black face is in its own a racist political argument. But it is something that happened in those days and this picture just shows that, being from those day. That's why I didn't bother me. And it was just a minor detail in the movie anyhow.
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monty
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Lonewolf2003
Jul 7 2015, 11:59:35 AM
monty
Jul 7 2015, 10:20:53 AM
Nobody else who reacted to the whack-a-nigger amusement park attraction? Not very amusing or charming today, I dare say.
Yeah, I was shocked initially but realized that it wasn't used in a racist way I feel or to make any political argument of any kind. Ofcourse you could say that using a black face is in its own a racist political argument. But it is something that happened in those days and this picture just shows that, being from those day. That's why I didn't bother me. And it was just a minor detail in the movie anyhow.
Granted this racist view of blacks was common fare in the 30s and its use in the film can thus be seen as simply portraying what went on back then. Still I find it troublesome, especially considering what this racialist way of thinking led to just a few years down the road from when the film was made. Too bad Fejös didn't take a strong stance against this sort of thing in his film. As it stands it's neither charming nor fun.
Edited by monty, Jul 7 2015, 12:29:43 PM.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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It was problematic but I found it more fascinating/interesting than anything. There was a point in time where something like this was considered normal. Plus you always hear how it was America with views like that back then and Europe was fine, but that scene shows that that obviously wasn't the case.
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Lonewolf2003
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Yes discrimination and racism was really nowhere to be found in Europe in the 1930s. :huh:
Edited by Lonewolf2003, Jul 7 2015, 06:46:51 PM.
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