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iCM Forum Film World Cup match 3D: Chile vs Poland; Voting deadline: September 30
Topic Started: Sep 17 2015, 07:01:02 PM (2,126 Views)
joachimt
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This is match 3D of the iCM Forum Film World Cup.

CHILEvPOLAND
El chacal de Nahueltoro / Jackal of Nahueltoro (1969)vSwiadectwo urodzenia / The Birth Certificate (1961)
montyvCarmel98

Screenshots


Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 2 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

The film with more #1 votes wins. If there's a tie, the match will be extended 3 days.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
Edited by joachimt, Sep 17 2015, 07:35:17 PM.
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zuma
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1. Birth Certificate (1961)

2. Jackal of Nahueltoro (1969)

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XxXApathy420XxX
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I guess I'll rewatch Jackal of Nahueltoro first now that there are new subs. But still, Birth Certificate is amazing.
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Mario Gaborović
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1. Jackal of Nahueltoro (1969)
2. Birth Certificate (1961)
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monty
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Remember to get the new and drastically improved English subs for Chile's nom.

Also, check out this illuminating review
Edited by monty, Sep 17 2015, 07:26:22 PM.
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joachimt
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Never mind
Edited by joachimt, Sep 17 2015, 07:38:57 PM.
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zhangalan
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That screenshot of Jackal somehow reminds me of Oldboy.
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klaus78
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia (Poland) 8/10
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro (Chile) 7/10
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monty
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Stuff for you guys to ponder after having seen El chacal de Nahueltoro :

Spoiler: click to toggle


For those of you who have seen it, did you catch this detail?
Edited by monty, Sep 18 2015, 01:05:51 AM.
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Cocoa
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro
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monty
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1. Jackal of Nahueltoro (1969)
2. Birth Certificate (1961)
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joachimt
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia 9/10
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro 8/10

I feel sorry for you, monty. Good choice and I probably would have voted for it if it was in another match. I love Birth Certificate too much.
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monty
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Glad you liked it anyway, joachim. Did you find the new subs add to the experience? Also, did you catch up on the point noted by J. Stewart in Reverse Shot (see my post above)? And please, do not forget to check out the links I provided above.
As for Birth Certificate, it's good but unfortunately its three stories are too variable in quality for me to fav it.
Edited by monty, Sep 18 2015, 08:50:13 PM.
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joachimt
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Weird question.
The subs were good, but how can I tell if subs add to the experience? Sure, they add to the experience, because without it, I wouldn't have understood the movie. :lol:
I don't know how much better it is than the previous subs, because I only watched it this once.

You'll be happy to know I just added it to my 500<400 list among the highest ranked 8's.
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monty
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joachimt
Sep 18 2015, 08:51:34 PM
Weird question.
The subs were good, but how can I tell if subs add to the experience? Sure, they add to the experience, because without it, I wouldn't have understood the movie. :lol:
I don't know how much better it is than the previous subs, because I only watched it this once.

You'll be happy to know I just added it to my 500<400 list among the highest ranked 8's.
Oh, I see. I thought you were one of those who'd seen it before with the old subs.

Anyhow, did you note that detail at the end when Jose is sitting on his cot reading that certain magazine?
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monty
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Posted ImageJackal of Nahueltoro 2-4 Birth CertificatePosted Image
Edited by monty, Sep 19 2015, 07:52:42 PM.
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XxXApathy420XxX
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Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
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monty
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Ettinauer226XL
Sep 19 2015, 07:57:01 PM
Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
Chile has a few good ones up its sleeve as well...
Edited by monty, Sep 19 2015, 08:33:37 PM.
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Smoover
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia 8.5
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro 7.0
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wolski888
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1. Birth Certificate
2. Jackal of Nalhueltoro

When I started watching the Chilean film I was set on putting all biases aside since I am Polish-Canadian. But that wasn't too hard since I thought the film had a bad start. Editing and sound seemed bad, compared to Birth Certificate. I'm not sure if the hand held cam was done on purpose but it was too shaky for my taste. I enjoyed the Polish one. The ending was pretty interesting with the Jewish-Pole girl. I'm not going to say anything but knowing what happened afterwords would be interesting.


Posted ImageJackal of Nahueltoro 2-6 Birth CertificatePosted Image
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mightysparks
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro

Didn't like either of them, but Jackal was more boring and looked more amateurish.
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mjf314
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Ettinauer226XL
Sep 19 2015, 07:57:01 PM
Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
Does Poland have a 2nd ultra-safe film remaining? Japan still has Red Angel, When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, and Late Autumn (but I doubt Melvelet will pick those, since I think he's trying to avoid mafia films).

Edit: I just remembered that Wajda hasn't been used yet. Kanal would be pretty safe.
Edited by mjf314, Sep 20 2015, 03:32:08 AM.
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zhangalan
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mjf314
Sep 20 2015, 03:30:26 AM
Ettinauer226XL
Sep 19 2015, 07:57:01 PM
Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
Does Poland have a 2nd ultra-safe film remaining? Japan still has Red Angel, When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, and Late Autumn (but I doubt Melvelet will pick those, since I think he's trying to avoid mafia films).

Edit: I just remembered that Wajda hasn't been used yet. Kanal would be pretty safe.
I think the RYM top 1000 is dominated by Russian and Polish films.
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Nopros
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mjf314
Sep 20 2015, 03:30:26 AM
Ettinauer226XL
Sep 19 2015, 07:57:01 PM
Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
Does Poland have a 2nd ultra-safe film remaining? Japan still has Red Angel, When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, and Late Autumn (but I doubt Melvelet will pick those, since I think he's trying to avoid mafia films).

Edit: I just remembered that Wajda hasn't been used yet. Kanal would be pretty safe.
This is just sound so stupid to me, I get that the world cup is a lot about getting people to watch movies they wouldn't have seen if it wasn't for the WC, but isn't winning also preferable?
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XxXApathy420XxX
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mjf314
Sep 20 2015, 03:30:26 AM
Ettinauer226XL
Sep 19 2015, 07:57:01 PM
Poland still has Amator and a few more fantastic gems. I would say that it's the strongest contender right now.
Does Poland have a 2nd ultra-safe film remaining? Japan still has Red Angel, When a Woman Ascends the Stairs, and Late Autumn (but I doubt Melvelet will pick those, since I think he's trying to avoid mafia films).

Edit: I just remembered that Wajda hasn't been used yet. Kanal would be pretty safe.
Not ultra safe, but I think that Do widzenia, do jutra will be a very good choice.

But then again judging from my past choices no one will vote for it... but then again, an experimental film that represented Poland won.
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brokenface
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1. Jackal
2. Birth Certificate

both good films, but I give Jackal the edge. Birth Certificate is well made but it's not too hard to make us feel sympathetic for children caught up in the horrors of war and drive home an anti-war message. Jackal took a more difficult route with a wholly unsympathetic protagonist around whom to ask questions about social inequality and the death penalty.
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monty
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@brokenface: But did you find yourself more sympathetically inlined towards him as the story of his life unfolded? Also, do you agree with the point made in post#9?
Edited by monty, Sep 20 2015, 09:39:18 PM.
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brokenface
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monty
Sep 20 2015, 09:38:06 PM
@brokenface: But did you find yourself more sympathetically inlined towards him as the story of his life unfolded? Also, do you agree with the point made in post#9?
In a way, but it's a difficult one. I mean, there would be many others with similar background who never committed an act like that. But it works as an extreme example to illustrate the point.

Didn't pick up that detail.
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Lilarcor
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1. Birth Certificate 8/10
2. Jackal of Nalhueltoro 7.99/10
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monty
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Lilarcor
Sep 21 2015, 12:15:02 AM
1. Birth Certificate 8/10
2. Jackal of Nalhueltoro 7.99/10
Damn, that was a close race. And damn those cutesy Polish kids.
Edited by monty, Sep 21 2015, 08:49:37 AM.
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metaller
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Sorry monty, I think I have voted against Chile in every round so far. :(
I think this is the best of the Chilean so far. Unfortunately, the Polish entry is one of the strongest entries of the whole round.
I'll still add chacal to my <400 list though. :)

1. Swiadectwo urodzenia
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro

Thoughts on both:

Swiadectwo urodzenia / Birth Certificate (1961, Stanislaw Rózewicz)
Three short films about the fate of different children during WWII in Poland. All three are excellent. Strong acting from the kids, beautifully shot and very touching and harrowing.
8/10

El chacal de Nahueltoro / Jackal of Nahueltoro (1969, Miguel Littin)
Film about a poor uneducated farmhand who commits some murders and gets committed to the death penalty. Painsts a detailed and convincing picture of its protagonist and manages to make him sympathetic by the end. Well made and pulls some neat tricks especially closer to the end.
7/10
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monty
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Glad to hear you'll put it on your 500<400 list, metaller. And like I say to all here, please make sure to read my posts #5 + 9 for some stuff to ponder post-viewing.
Note to self, b&w films about kids suffering through war is hell to face in this cup.
Edited by monty, Sep 21 2015, 10:27:48 PM.
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zhangalan
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1. Jackal
2. Birth Certificate

I can understand why people love Birth Certificate, but I find the story being told in a boring way.

I don't agree that the editing of Jackal is bad. On the other hand I love its style. Still I don't think it is impressive enough for me to pity the main character. Not as good and all-round when compared with In Cold Blood.
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monty
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Posted ImageJackal of Nahueltoro 4-9 Birth CertificatePosted Image
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Lonewolf2003
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia (1961):8.0 - a movie about kids in wartime might be an easy way to affect people. But it never takes the easy route and becomes overly sentimental.
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro (1969): 6.5 - Intellectually I can admire what this movie is trying to do, but moviewise it doesn't work for me.
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Angel Glez
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1. The Birth Certificate
2. Jackal of Nahueltoro

Littin's work is well-intented and respectable, but his cinematic language is so ochre and unexciting. I just saw my 6th Littin, Los náufragos (1994), and it's even duller than his previous efforts. Sorry, but Littin is not my cup of tea.

The Polish movie is memorable, to say the least.
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tommy_leazaq
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Jackal of Nahueltoro: I Liked it. A good satirical take on the country's media, economical and political system. The stylized editing and non linear narration helped its mokumentary mood.
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monty
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tommy_leazaq
Sep 25 2015, 03:34:19 AM
The stylized editing and non linear narration helped its mokumentary mood.
You need to brush up on the meaning of the term mockumentary, a genre which Jackal clearly doesn't fall into.

El Chacal de Nahueltoro is based on the true story of Jose del Carmen Valenzuela Torres, a killer who was active in the early 60’s in the rural area of Nahueltoro.The film also follows his trial, using the real records, and shows his life during his imprisonment

I ask you to read this review
Edited by monty, Sep 25 2015, 08:55:35 AM.
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Lonewolf2003
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I wouldn't see it as an satire either, for that it's for too humorless
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jvv
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1. Swiadectwo urodzenia
2. El chacal de Nahueltoro
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